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The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Our next item is an evidence session on the transfer of ScotRail’s operations. In March 2021, the then Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity, Michael Matheson, announced his decision not to extend the franchise arrangements for the operation of ScotR...

Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber

In six months’ time, ScotRail will enter public ownership and a new national rail service will be created—a development that will not only shape the future of our railways and the jobs involved but have a significant influence on our journey to net zero. Given the significance...

Dean Lockhart Con Chamber

General Question Time · ScotRail Services (Stirling)

Let me remind the cabinet secretary that ScotRail data for March showed that less than 60 per cent of trains that terminate at Stirling station were on time, and 40 per cent were classified as late. Notwithstanding his assurances that everything possible is being done to remed...

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Thanks very much, Michael. It is useful to get that perspective. What impact will the introduction of Great British Railways have on ScotRail’s operations? Will there be increasing integration of services between the two operators? What is your expectation of those two paralle...

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

That brings us to the end of our allocated time. I thank the panel members for joining the committee. We appreciate your time and your insights into the transition that faces ScotRail and rail operations in Scotland and across the rest of Great Britain. That brings us to the ...

The Convener Con Committee

Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session on the transfer of operation of ScotRail. Last week, the committee heard from rail industry stakeholders in relation to the transfer. I am pleased to welcome Jenny Gilruth, Minister for Transport, and Jan Spy, solicitor, Scottish Go...

The Convener Con Committee

Thank you, minister. My first question relates to improvements that we might see as a result of ScotRail’s reorganisation. Last week, as you have said, the committee took evidence from various stakeholders, but we did not hear about any improvements that the change of ownersh...

The Convener Con Committee

Subordinate Legislation

As you have said, the instrument relates to the nationalisation of ScotRail and, when you appeared before the committee less than two months ago, you told us that the main reason for nationalisation was to increase accountability and ensure that “ministers are held to account...

The Convener Con Committee

Subordinate Legislation

My question is not directly relevant to the order, but it relates to the nationalisation of ScotRail, and the order relates to that. The Scottish ministers now own ScotRail 100 per cent, via a holding company, as you have said. Why are Scottish ministers not getting directly i...

4. Dean Lockhart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber

General Question Time · ScotRail Services (Stirling)

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the performance of ScotRail services using Stirling station. (S5O-03181)

Dean Lockhart Con Chamber

Transport (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 (Day 2)

I appreciate that the cabinet secretary is keen to increase funding for transport, especially given the dismal performance of ScotRail. However, Scotland’s high streets face unprecedented pressure from increasing business rates and a stagnant economy under the Scottish Nationa...

The Convener (Dean Lockhart) Con Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Good morning, and welcome to the eighth meeting in 2022 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. We are conducting this week’s meeting in hybrid format. Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take in private item 5, which is con...

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Welcome back, Mick. Can you hear me okay?

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Did you hear my question?

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Absolutely. I asked each of you what service improvements you would like to see as a result of the impending reorganisation and what concerns you might have that the number of services that will be run under the new entity might decline.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Thank you for that. Before the meeting, we received the RMT policy submission document, so thank you for that, too. I put the same question to Robert Samson.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Thanks very much, Robert. I am sure that other members will want to follow up, as you mentioned a number of issues there. I put the same question to you, Michael Clark. Let me know if you are in a position to address the question. You might have some views on it, as a represe...

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Mick Hogg and Robert Samson, what assurances would you like on jobs, infrastructure improvement and the cost of rail travel? What concerns do you have about those?

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Those replies were very helpful, and I am sure that members will want to follow that up.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Liam Kerr and Mark Ruskell have supplementary questions.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Thanks very much, Jackie. Liam Kerr has a quick supplementary on this area.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Before I bring in Liam Kerr, I ask the panel members to give us briefer replies. We still have a bit to get through and I am keen to let all the members ask their questions.

The Convener Con Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Our final question is from Mark Ruskell.

The Convener Con Committee

Thank you very much for that. I understand the ambition to have a rail service that meets the needs of the people of Scotland—indeed, it is a great ambition—but I have to say that I have heard nothing about specific improvements that will be delivered. However, other members w...

The Convener Con Committee

I have a final, brief question. What are the estimated total costs for the reorganisation?

The Convener Con Committee

I do not mean the operational part of it. I am asking about the cost of the transfer operations.

The Convener Con Committee

If it is £3.6 million to date, what would you estimate the final total cost to be? We will not hold you to this, but can you give us a ballpark figure?

The Convener Con Committee

Will that include any contractual compensation? Is that an all-in figure for the costs associated with the transfer?

The Convener Con Committee

No, I am just—

The Convener Con Committee

That is good to know. That is enough from me for the moment. I call Fiona Hyslop.

The Convener Con Committee

Liam Kerr has a supplementary question on that. Following that, Natalie Don will join us remotely.

The Convener Con Committee

Monica Lennon has a supplementary question on this area.

The Convener Con Committee

Jan Spy, the minister suggested that you might want to talk about the legal side. Would you like to do that now?

The Convener Con Committee

When will we be able to see that framework? Is it publicly available? If not, when will it be?

The Convener Con Committee

Fantastic. I believe that Monica Lennon has further questions.

The Convener Con Committee

I call Liam Kerr.

The Convener Con Committee

I call Fiona Hyslop.

The Convener Con Committee

We are running up against the clock now, but I have a final question that takes us back to the issue of the proposed service cuts. Minister, I understand that you campaigned against those cuts last year, including several proposed cuts to services in Fife. Is that still your p...

The Convener Con Committee

With Covid restrictions being lifted, people returning to the office and people commuting to Edinburgh from Fife and elsewhere, do you see a scenario in which pre-Covid levels of service will be reinstated?

The Convener Con Committee

I believe that Liam Kerr has a supplementary.

The Convener Con Committee

That brings us to the end of our allocated time, and I thank the minister and her officials for taking part in this evidence-taking session. The committee will discuss the evidence in private later in the meeting. I suspend the meeting for a few minutes before we move on to t...

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Committee

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee 08 March 2022

08 Mar 2022 · S6 · Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Item of business

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Lockhart, Dean Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Our next item is an evidence session on the transfer of ScotRail’s operations. In March 2021, the then Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity, Michael Matheson, announced his decision not to extend the franchise arrangements for the operation of ScotRail. Instead, it was announced that ScotRail would be run by an arm’s-length company that would be set up by the Scottish Government. On 8 February, the Minister for Transport, Jenny Gilruth MSP, confirmed that the transfer will go ahead on 1 April. The committee has agreed to hear from stakeholders ahead of the transfer of operations on 1 April. At our meeting next week, we will hear from the Minister for Transport. This morning, I am pleased to welcome Robert Samson, senior stakeholder manager at Transport Focus; Mick Hogg, regional organiser at the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers—the RMT; and Michael Clark, programme director for strategy and transformation at the Great British Railways Transition Team. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for accepting our invitation. It is good to see you. We have just over an hour for this evidence session and we will move straight to questions. The first question is from me. I ask each of you what service improvements you would like to see as a result of the impending reorganisation and what concerns you might have that the number of services that will be run under the new entity might decline. I ask you to respond in the following order: Mick Hogg, Robert Samson and then Michael Clark. Mick, it is over to you. Interruption. I think that Mick’s connection has dropped off. Robert, that brings you up the pecking order for answering—

In the same item of business

The Convener Con

Our next item is an evidence session on the transfer of ScotRail’s operations. In March 2021, the then Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Co...

Mick Hogg (National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers)

I am back, convener.

The Convener Con

Welcome back, Mick. Can you hear me okay?

The Convener Con

Did you hear my question?

Will you ask it again, please, if you do not mind?

The Convener Con

Absolutely. I asked each of you what service improvements you would like to see as a result of the impending reorganisation and what concerns you might have ...

Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee. My main concern is industrial relations with the new operator taking over. As MSPs will be well...

The Convener Con

Thank you for that. Before the meeting, we received the RMT policy submission document, so thank you for that, too. I put the same question to Robert Samson.

Robert Samson (Transport Focus)

Back in July 2020, we published “Rail passengers’ priorities for improvement”, and we believe that ScotRail should focus on that. We covered priorities acros...

The Convener Con

Thanks very much, Robert. I am sure that other members will want to follow up, as you mentioned a number of issues there. I put the same question to you, Mi...

Michael Clark (Great British Railways Transition Team)

Thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee. As I was going to set out, I do not have any formal locus on the question, which remains one for Tran...

The Convener Con

Thanks very much, Michael. It is useful to get that perspective. What impact will the introduction of Great British Railways have on ScotRail’s operations? W...

Michael Clark

I will not get ahead of myself. The Scottish Government and the Government at Westminster are still discussing at the highest level how best to implement the...

The Convener Con

Mick Hogg and Robert Samson, what assurances would you like on jobs, infrastructure improvement and the cost of rail travel? What concerns do you have about ...

We need to focus on getting more jobs in our railway. That is an absolute priority because, since the pandemic, our annual intake of staff at the academy wit...

Robert Samson

We recently conducted a consultation on ScotRail’s ticket office opening hours, and it showed that passengers value a visible staff presence. We hope that, i...

The Convener Con

Those replies were very helpful, and I am sure that members will want to follow that up.

Fiona Hyslop (Linlithgow) (SNP) SNP

This is an opportunity to look at the future of rail in Scotland. I will start with Michael Clark. Network Rail will be subsumed into Great British Railways....

Michael Clark

There is no intention to change the nature of the current relationship of funding and specification from the Scottish Government. It was quite a clear line i...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Do Robert Samson and Mick Hogg have any views about Great British Railways—I am conscious that Michael Clark is in the meeting—and what it might mean for Sco...

Robert Samson

Back in 2018, when the Williams review was kicking off, we held a series of focus groups across Great Britain, including in Glasgow, about what passengers ac...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Mick, do you have any comments about Great British Railways and the future?

The RMT is concerned about what is being proposed in relation to Great British Railways. It has a cuts agenda written all over it as a result of using the pa...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Thank you. I will stay with Mick Hogg for my second question, which is about the decarbonisation of ScotRail’s services. Scottish ministers aim to fully deca...

We would welcome any change that means that we have a greener railway, particularly if it means that we see more people ditching their cars and using public ...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

It was about the operation of new stock—whether it is battery powered or whether we will see further technology changes and a move to hydrogen. What are the ...

We would welcome that as long as it did not reduce the number of personnel on trains. A big issue on Scotland’s trains is an increase in antisocial behaviour...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

I come to Michael Clark next. You referred to Scotland’s experience of decarbonisation. Do you think that the 2035 target is realistic? I went on the hydroge...

Michael Clark

Again, I will have to put a bit of a caveat up front in that I have not specifically examined the Scottish target and the attempts to achieve it. You highli...