Committee
Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee 26 January 2021
26 Jan 2021 · S5 · Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee
Item of business
Heat Networks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. Before I speak to amendment 134, I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, particularly in relation to my involvement in developing one of Scotland’s first district heating networks, which I began in 2004. As I said at stage 1, I welcome the ability to deliberate the proposed legislation to advance heat networks in Scotland. I am pleased to see that the principle of the bill aims to encourage greater use of heat networks. I have concerns about whether some of the amendments will achieve that, and I will get to those points accordingly. As to why amendment 134 is needed, when a regulatory body agreement is being set up, that agreement should include service standards that clearly establish communication protocols and decision-making timescales that will ensure that the regulatory process is conducted in a timely and transparent manner. The Scottish Government needs to fully determine how the bill is going to be regulated and what role the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets will play in that, such as whether it will be the licensing authority. Whatever body it is, it must be agile and responsive, and therefore clarity is needed in regulating that policy in the devolved Scottish context. That clarity would ensure that heat networks would be effectively deployed within the devolved powers of the Scottish Government. Doing all that will ensure that heat networks contribute to progress toward the Scottish Government’s net zero target, which will ensure that Scotland’s future heating needs are met by low-carbon energy. With regard to how the provisions that are set out in amendment 134 would work, the clerks have interpreted them as a reference to the regulation body agreement and the licensing regime, in order to look at how heat networks are regulated. The amendment aims at including certain provisions within the standard conditions for a heat networks licence, so the service standards, communication and decision-making protocols are clearly set out for all who are involved in the sector. I am grateful to the minister for his discussion of all the amendments and all the bill throughout the bill process so far. It has been done in a most constructive manner at all stages. I was grateful for the conversation that we had regarding my amendment. Because of a couple of points that he made, I will not press amendment 134 at this stage; I will edit it and resubmit amendments at stage 3 to correct those issues, I hope with his support. The first correction that we would like to see in working with the minister is to define “heat network operator”, which is referred to in subparagraphs (i) and (ii) of the paragraph that amendment 134 would introduce. We used that term when drafting the amendment with the clerks, but it has been pointed out that there is no definition of that term in the bill, so it might cause some confusion. We would look to change that so that there is a definition that is understood in the rest of the legislation—it will be something along the lines of being the licence holder. At stage 3, I will probably look to split the amendment, because subparagraph (iii), which relates to “decision-making protocols to be agreed between the operator and the licensing authority”, may not be quite as clear as we intended. Following discussion with the minister, I appreciate that, if the licence had been issued but protocols were still to be agreed, there would be a dilemma regarding the impact and enforcement of the licence. The intention of that part of amendment 134 was that there should be timeous conversations about the licence, and I sought to address the timing of that to-ing and fro-ing between the operator and licensing authority through protocols. With the clerks, and in discussion with the minister, we will look to make that clearer at stage 3, when I will lodge another amendment to that effect. The minister’s assistance with the amendment has been very welcome. I move amendment 134.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Gordon Lindhurst)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2021 of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. Agenda item 1 is consideration of the Heat Networks (S...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is in a group on its own.
The Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
Good morning. Section 1(7) of the bill as introduced enables the Scottish ministers to “modify the meaning ... of ‘heat network’, ‘district heat network’ or...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on fuel poverty: contributing to fuel poverty targets and consulting the Scottish fuel poverty advisory panel. Amendment 2, in the name of ...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
This group of amendments seeks to meet the recommendations in paragraphs 131 and 132 of the committee’s stage 1 report, which invited me to “reflect on the ...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the minister’s comments. A lot of that sounded quite technical but, in essence, it is quite simple: we must have regard to fuel poverty and ensure ...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
As we sit here on a cold January morning, it is tragic that there are thousands of people all over Scotland who are cold and living in fuel poverty. The Gove...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
I agree totally with my colleagues. We must all care about fuel poverty and take the time to resolve it. Perhaps the United Kingdom Government could look at ...
The Convener
Con
I invite the minister to wind up.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank members for their positive remarks. I also thank the committee and witnesses who gave evidence, because I hope that they have helped us to strengthen...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 145, in the name of Claudia Beamish, is grouped with amendments 149 and 152. Alex Rowley will move amendment 145 and speak to all the amendments in...
Alex Rowley
Lab
Convener, my understanding is that my colleague Claudia Beamish has had discussions with the minister and, as a result, the intention is to lodge an amendmen...
The Convener
Con
Does any member object to amendment 145 being withdrawn?
Graham Simpson
Con
On a point of clarification, is Alex Rowley withdrawing all three amendments? 09:15
The Convener
Con
Mr Rowley, are you withdrawing all three amendments?
Alex Rowley
Lab
If that is the way to do it, yes.
The Convener
Con
I am happy for it to be done that way; I think that that is fine. Does any member object to Mr Rowley withdrawing those three amendments? As no member objec...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on heat networks licence standard conditions. Amendment 134, in the name of Alexander Burnett, is the only amendment in the group.
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Con
Good morning. Before I speak to amendment 134, I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, particularly in relation to my involvement in develo...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
Alexander Burnett has summed up the situation well, and I was pleased to work with him. Hopefully, we will be able to continue to work together to address th...
The Convener
Con
Mr Burnett, do you wish to press or withdraw amendment 134?
Alexander Burnett
Con
I will withdraw the amendment for the reasons stated, and I will look to resubmit it at stage 3. Amendment 134, by agreement, withdrawn. Section 6 agreed t...
The Convener
Con
Group 5 is on minor and technical amendments. Amendment 4, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, is grouped with amendments 7, 8, 39, 52 to 60, 128 and 129.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
Largely, the amendments in this group relate to drafting changes following the review of the bill and consequences of the amendments that have been discussed...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on revocation and appeals against revocation of heat networks licences. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 6.
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
The amendments that are in the group will address the recommendation that the committee made in paragraph 84 of its stage 1 report, in which it asked the Sco...
Alexander Burnett
Con
I thank the minister for the set of amendments. They are in tandem with amendment 134, which I spoke about and did not press. The sector has looked for clari...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I welcome Mr Burnett’s comments. We will do all that we can to address his final point about trying to work the processes in tandem. I will bear that in mind...
The Convener
Con
The next group is on heat networks licences: existing heat networks. Amendment 146, in the name of Maurice Golden, is grouped with amendments 147 and 148.
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 146 addresses the obvious need for the Government to deal with retrospective changes to existing heat networks. That is a particularly unclear area...