Hansard

Liam Kerr Con Committee

26 Nov 2025

Subordinate Legislation

First, cabinet secretary, on the point that Katy Clark has just raised—and noting that we are all getting this information in real time—I want to be clear that the SSI before us creates a new power for ministers to change the minimum period of sentence served, but to do so usi...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

21 Jun 2017

Subordinate Legislation

On a point of clarity, the issue is about a policy intention that, for whatever reason, was not actioned correctly, so there is a group of people who have paid tax in good faith but who should not have done so. Presumably, assuming that the order goes through, a considerable a...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

21 Jun 2017

Subordinate Legislation

It will presumably be given a due level of importance to ensure that people who have inadvertently paid are recompensed.

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

24 Oct 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I want to declare interests as a landlord in the private rented sector, as a member of the Scottish Association of Landlords and as a solicitor with current practising certificates from the Law Society of Scotland and, in England and Wales, the Law Society.

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

14 Nov 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I declare my interest as a solicitor with a current practising certificate with the Law Society of England and Wales and the Law Society of Scotland. I am also a landlord in Edinburgh’s private rented sector and a member of the Scottish Association of Landlords.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

14 Nov 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I support the measure, but I did not have the benefit of attending the briefing session the other week so I want you to help me to understand a bit more about it. Am I right that it does not require the finding of a unit and that if a signal is discovered the telecoms provider...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

14 Nov 2017

Subordinate Legislation

Thank you for that answer.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I would like to follow up on a few of the points that the minister made, if I may. Am I right in thinking that no equality impact assessment has been done at this stage, or has that now been done?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

Yes. However, just to be clear, when the Law Society says that, as at the start of November, there was no equality impact assessment, that remains the case, does it not?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I want to press you on Liam McArthur’s points. Various representations that have been made to us suggest that, overall, the scheme could make it less attractive for people to enter the profession. The convener made the point that there could be less resource to dispose of such...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

Forgive me, minister. I understand why you went down that route, but I am asking about the attractiveness of the profession in general. By the sound of it, we will need a lot more resource in future, which will require people to enter the profession. There is a suggestion that...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

You mentioned the existing scheme. As the convener has said, we have not had a lot of time to consider this issue, so forgive me if I am going off at a tangent, but it appears to me that if the proposal does not go through, there will be some kind of lacuna in January—the pres...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

That would change.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

I would like to clarify. If the regulations do not come into effect on 25 January, will the current arrangement that people understand continue indefinitely?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

Lower than today.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

12 Dec 2017

Subordinate Legislation

So, if the regulations do not pass, today’s scheme carries on indefinitely into the future.

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

27 Feb 2018

Subordinate Legislation

I have a question for Alastair Crerar on that point. Thank you for that clarification, but your response was predicated on the Law Society’s submission to the committee being the one that you have seen. My substantive question was going to be to ask whether you had seen the ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

27 Feb 2018

Subordinate Legislation

Are they definitely the same?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

27 Feb 2018

Subordinate Legislation

Thank you.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

26 Jun 2018

Subordinate Legislation

I may not have understood Daniel Johnson’s point entirely, but as regards the clarity of the SSI, I read it as applying only to the fees of the solicitors in an award of expenses at the end, rather than the court fees that are levied to access the courts. I am just a bit confu...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

26 Jun 2018

Subordinate Legislation

So, it is not necessarily an access-to-justice issue, although I concede that the litigant may say, “Okay what am I potentially in the hole for at the end of this?”

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Sep 2018

Subordinate Legislation

Are we dealing with both together?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Sep 2018

Subordinate Legislation

I have no substantive comments but simply say in respect of the Sheriff Court Fees Amendment Order 2018 that that is quite a major error that somebody seems to have made somewhere along the way. Jenny Gilruth, I think, or somebody made a point about these briefings but I am cu...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Sep 2018

Subordinate Legislation

I think that that would be sensible and I would feel much more comfortable if I knew what I was putting my name to. However, is that not the instrument that needs to change to get the carve-out in as soon as possible because of the potential ramifications?

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Just briefly, for interest, where did the figure of £300 come from? I know that it has been aligned with the court fee system, but why has the figure been changed from £200 to £300?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

At the start of the discussion, the minister said that this would be the toughest approach in the UK. Presumably, she means when it is combined with the drink strategy, because the drug strategy on its own just mirrors that of the UK. On timescales, I think that I am right th...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I will return to the equipment in a moment. You said that there was the assessment in 2013 and that the law is working south of the border, but can you reassure me about that? What assessment has been made since 2015 that it is working, if you see what I mean, and what can be ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

In the evidence that we have, the National Police Chiefs Council says that the roadside equipment, which I think you mentioned earlier, is single use—unlike, presumably, the drink-drive test. Has any assessment been done of whether that might make officers less likely to use i...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Thank you.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I will pick up on Fulton MacGregor’s point. To clarify, for a person who is in charge of a vehicle and who has cocaine in their system, one of the sanctions would be six months imprisonment. If you bring in a presumption against sentences of under 12 months—some might call it ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Feb 2019

Subordinate Legislation

You have decided on the appropriate disposal, because you have told the court to take a presumption against 12 months. The six-month sentence would not be available to sanction the guilty party.

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

19 Mar 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I have questions on the first and third instruments. I will deal with the one on police pensions first and then perhaps I could come back in after Daniel Johnson, who has indicated that he also wants to comment. From our papers, I understand that there will be an increase in ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Mar 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I would be very grateful.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

19 Mar 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I declare an interest: I have practising certificates with the Law Society of England and Wales and the Law Society of Scotland. I endorse the points that have been made; the issues that have been raised are important. In particular, the committee should find out whether the...

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I would like to go back to Daniel Johnson’s line of questioning to Mr McConnell, who made some good points about the challenges around stabilisation. I think that the most recent statistic that we have is that 60 per cent of drug treatment and testing orders in the community a...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

You have made good points, and I take your point about very short periods of two weeks. Daniel Johnson talked about using short periods productively, but I think that I am right in saying that purposeful activity in prisons is at a very low level—the lowest since 2010 or 2011...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I will be very brief, convener. I have three questions for Kate Wallace. First, sticking with the CPO side of things, I note that you have referred several times to victims and public confidence in the system. I understand that, at the moment, one in three CPOs is not complet...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I am grateful for that excellent point. Secondly, in February, VSS said that custodial sentences provide “victims of domestic abuse some breathing space”, and you make a similar point in your submission for this meeting. What safeguards are in place for victims of domestic ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

You also say in your submission that the current three-month presumption has been inadequate in protecting victims and witnesses. In that case, should the whole process not be put on hold until we are absolutely certain that sufficient protections are in place?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

First, I have a brief question for Professor Tata. To go back to something that you said, is it your view that judges do not have confidence in moving people out into the current community system?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I would like to move on. Dr Armstrong, you said in your submission that there are flaws in the evidence that those who have been given CPOs have lower reoffending rates than those who have been given short sentences. Will you explain that to the committee, please? If you are ...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

That was a comprehensive answer—I am grateful to you. I am riffing slightly—

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I will be quick; I am always quick, convener. You talked about meaningful activity in the community. Am I right in thinking that your research shows that one in four community sentences does not have any of that purposeful activity or an unpaid work element?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I have two brief questions. The submission from the Scottish Sentencing Council flags up that the presumption would cover solemn sentences of up to 18 months, as sentences can be discounted by up to a third due to early guilty pleas. Am I right in thinking that the presumption...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

The submission says that “1 in 10 received a headline sentence”. The committee would be interested in some of that data.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

04 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

My second question is around something else in the submission. There is an assertion that it cannot be assumed that those who would previously have got custody but who now get a community sentence would show a similar reconviction rate to those who would currently get a commun...

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

By way of clarification, I note that David Gauke said that he wanted to learn from the mistakes that had been made up here, such as CPOs not being enforced. Cabinet secretary, I take your point about the effectiveness of three-month sentences, but the committee heard last wee...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Forgive me for interrupting. What you are saying is really useful. For people who are watching, can you translate those percentages into numbers?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

So, if the modelling is correct, 1,300 people who would have gone to prison will be on community sentences.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

If you deny Professor Tata’s comment about the data—

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

With respect, cabinet secretary, I am simply reflecting back what Professor Tata told the committee. He said: “We have shockingly poor data”.—Official Report, Justice Committee, 4 June 2019; c 27. I am simply repeating the evidence that the committee heard.

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I am keen to pick up on what the cabinet secretary said about our needing to take the public with us. I understand his point, but I want to explore the subject briefly. Last week, we heard from victims groups that say that if you put a criminal in prison, they are being punish...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I do not dispute that. I am simply putting it to you that victims will look at what is going on and say that, in prison, there is an element of punishment and an element of public protection. Do you accept that victims would have a legitimate concern about those not being mirr...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

11 Jun 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Throughout today, a lot of the case has been founded on the idea that community sentences are much more effective in preventing reoffending. However, last week, the committee heard that making a straight comparison of reoffending rates between those who are given a short custo...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

29 Oct 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Cabinet secretary, can you tell us about the thinking around restricting the surcharge to those paying a court fine? I think that I heard you say that it is to do with the surcharge not being an extra penalty. Will you elaborate on that and on how the surcharge is calculated—t...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

29 Oct 2019

Subordinate Legislation

Let us take that to the logical next step. Cabinet secretary, you said that 88 per cent of fines are collected, and we talk about the surcharge being “proportionate”. How do you envisage the courts dealing with the ability of a person to pay a financial penalty once the surcha...

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con Committee

03 Dec 2019

Subordinate Legislation

I have a similar line of questioning. The £1 million is to help local authorities. What will it cost local authorities to deliver the service in each year over the next three years?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

21 Jan 2020

Subordinate Legislation

I understand the case that you make, cabinet secretary, but it is a question of parliamentary oversight. The DPLR committee says that it is “still ... unclear when exactly the Government were made aware of the potential shortage”. Are you able to help the committee understan...

Liam Kerr Con Committee

21 Jan 2020

Subordinate Legislation

Forgive me—I know that the committee is tight for time. My question is simply this: do you recall when you were made aware of the potential shortage?

Liam Kerr Con Committee

21 Jan 2020

Subordinate Legislation

Thank you. I am not sure that I suggested that you were attempting to evade parliamentary scrutiny; I appreciate that you have come forward to address the matter. Perhaps we can discuss that another time. You told the DPLR Committee that the increase was unexpected, and I und...