Committee
Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee 30 May 2019
30 May 2019 · S5 · Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Item of business
Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Evidence)
The issue in 2018 was very specific. The Presiding Officer had issued a certificate to the effect that the bill was not within the competence of the Parliament. The Lord Advocate expressed a different view, so he made a statement to Parliament to set out the basis on which ministers had nevertheless concluded that the bill was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament. Our position is that that was an exceptional set of circumstances. They were different from the set of circumstances that we had with Mr Rumbles’s question. I read his comments to the committee and, with due respect, it is hard to believe that he was not seeking to tease out what the advice to the Government had been. They were two different sets of circumstances. On the other question, there is a collective responsibility element here. It is for any minister of the Government to answer a question. The set of questions that day sat in the portfolio that I am part of, so I answered that question.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is evidence from Graeme Dey, Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans. I welcome Graeme Dey MSP; Jonathan Brown, from the parliamentary counse...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Graeme Dey)
SNP
I welcome the first opportunity to attend a meeting of this committee since I became Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans, which was 11 months ag...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much, minister. We have a number of questions on areas that you will probably have an understanding of. Indeed, there has already been a bit o...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. What impact have the preparations for Brexit had on the Government and on parliamentary resources?
Graeme Dey
SNP
First, I would certainly stress that pressure has been put not only on the Government but on the Parliament, which has had to respond to the challenges that ...
Gil Paterson
SNP
You seem to be comfortable with the resources that you have had available, although you have had to second other folk. Are you reasonably comfortable with th...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I would say that we have coped, but the organisation has been working flat out and we have had no spare capacity. Indeed, we have had to second additional le...
Gil Paterson
SNP
So you do not know what is coming, but you know what you have been through. What is the likelihood of your being overwhelmed by things, or is it just a case ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
We will have to wait and see, but we should not underestimate the effect of the conversations that are taking place with the committees, particularly the con...
Steven Macgregor (Scottish Government)
It is difficult to say what to expect. What we are trying to do is what we have had to do for the past several months, which is to plan as far ahead as we ca...
Gil Paterson
SNP
So there is another element to this, and that is Parliament and the committees and so on. How has all this additional load that we never expected impacted on...
Graeme Dey
SNP
One example of how it has affected us is that, earlier this year, we had to pause six bills as well as the instruments that I referred to. That is probably t...
Gil Paterson
SNP
I want to take you down a slightly different line. Why has the majority of regulation to prepare for the devolved statute book for Brexit been done at the UK...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I used the word “pragmatic” earlier. We have shown pragmatism. Given the pressures that we were under, there was no point in duplicating work. If we could ag...
Gil Paterson
SNP
The Parliament’s major function is to scrutinise the work of the Government. The fact is that the instruments that we are talking about never appeared in the...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Do you want to talk about the process, Steven?
Steven Macgregor
The technical scrutiny of the statutory instruments was undertaken by the UK Parliament, but we put in place a protocol whereby, before those instruments wou...
Gil Paterson
SNP
Now that you have had experience of that, are you satisfied that the scrutiny went the way that we expected it to go? I know that you have concerns about the...
Graeme Dey
SNP
We do not live in an ideal world in which, of course, we would have a full scrutiny process. My judgment is that, by and large, and given the circumstances t...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Green
To follow up on that point, do you feel that, inevitably, because of the pragmatism that you have mentioned—which has been driven primarily by the situation ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Generally, the standard has been okay. I ask you to take it on trust that the Government would never go along with something that was not in Scotland’s best ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Good morning, minister. I recognise that parliamentarians and committees have stepped up to the additional workload. However, are you suggesting that the tim...
Graeme Dey
SNP
As I said earlier, we had to pause six bills, which we are in the process of reintroducing. Undoubtedly, we will face further challenges as we move forward. ...
Jamie Halcro Johnston
Con
I take your point, and it might be a question of prioritising the Parliament’s time. However, yesterday, the Government introduced the Referendums (Scotland)...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I think that there is probably a political element to that question.
Jamie Halcro Johnston
Con
The bill has been introduced, but you have suggested that there is already pressure and that prioritisation is taking place in relation to legislation, so I ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I accept that. The Government considers the bill to be important, and it is factored into our planning. As long as there are no impacts from Brexit, which wo...
The Convener
SNP
In session 4, the committee conducted an inquiry into legislation in the Scottish Parliament. We have a few questions about the legislative process, particul...
Tom Mason (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
We have made some progress with documentation, in that a bill’s financial memorandum has been extracted from its explanatory notes. How have you improved doc...
Graeme Dey
SNP
That issue has been a priority for me since I became a minister 11 months ago. As you will know, I was a committee convener in a previous life, so I entirely...