Committee
Education, Children and Young People Committee 22 November 2023
22 Nov 2023 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Colleges of Further Education and Regional Strategic Bodies (Membership of Boards) (Scotland) Order 2023 [Draft]
I am delighted to be here today to discuss the Colleges of Further Education and Regional Strategic Bodies (Membership of Boards) (Scotland) Order 2023, which makes changes to the constitution of the boards of management of all regional and incorporated assigned colleges, regional college boards and the board of management of New College Lanarkshire. For ease, I will, from now on, refer to the changes as affecting “college boards”. The order makes amendments to existing legislation to ensure that there are two trade union nominee members—one from the teaching staff and one from the support staff—on college boards. Consequential amendments to the board sizes are also made to ensure that there remains a balance of independent board members. I hope that, among other things, that will go some way to improving industrial relations in the sector by giving greater voice to trade union views in decision making and by helping to improve confidence, particularly among the workforce, in decisions that are made by college boards. I am grateful to the committee for its work in scrutinising the Colleges of Further Education and Regional Strategic Bodies (Membership of Boards) (Scotland) Order 2023, and for accommodating my diary today in order that I can also attend a similarly important event elsewhere this morning. I also want to put on record my thanks to Ross Greer, the good governance steering group and the trade unions, who have all provided input at various times to help develop the order and prepare the sector for its implementation. It is no secret that industrial relations in the college sector are far from ideal, and that has been the case for some time. Concerns have been raised through the committee and through my engagement with trade unions about a range of workforce issues, including college governance. I have been clear throughout that engagement that the workforce issues are a matter for colleges to consider, but it is my expectation that there will be meaningful engagement and collaboration with trade unions and workers on such matters. I should add that existing processes are pursued when issues arise. The order will make improvements to college governance by adding trade union nominees to college boards, and I am optimistic that it will improve confidence in college board decision making by giving trade unions a more direct route to bring workforce issues to boards. That aligns with the Scottish Government’s wider fair work agenda, which, at its centre, is about workers having an effective voice. Having trade union nominees on boards will further the input of trade unions in decision making. I welcome the committee’s continued focus on college governance and industrial relations and its scrutiny of that legislation. The Government has always been clear that, although industrial relations are matters for trade unions and college employers, it will work alongside both to encourage and improve relations and ensure good governance in the sector. I look forward to taking any questions that the committee may have.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Sue Webber)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the 30th meeting in 2023 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is consideration of...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey)
SNP
I am delighted to be here today to discuss the Colleges of Further Education and Regional Strategic Bodies (Membership of Boards) (Scotland) Order 2023, whic...
The Convener
Con
Thank you for that, minister. We will move to questions from members.
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, minister. This is a welcome move, and it is important for the fair work principles that you set out. Will there be any further opportunities to...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Indeed. We are getting under way a piece of work that is a review of the guidance that is issued to college boards. Perhaps Adam Mackie will explain the deta...
Adam Mackie (Scottish Government)
We are currently looking at the guidance on the appointment of board members. We have been working with the good governance steering group on that, as well a...
Graeme Dey
SNP
In addition, we will ask the college development network to look at the nature of the training that is provided to participants on boards. It is no secret th...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
In a similar vein to Ruth Maguire’s question, I want to explore the no-compulsory-redundancy policy again. I accept what you have said before, which is that ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Our position, as we have discussed in the chamber on other occasions, is that colleges ought to be exhausting all possibilities to avoid compulsory redundanc...
Willie Rennie
LD
When Mike Russell was in your position, he was quite clear that he was making a strong recommendation. He said, “This is Government policy and we expect coll...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I cannot speak to what Michael Russell said all those years ago. My position is realistic. We have been very clear with colleges. As I said earlier, for the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, minister and officials. One of the points that you made earlier, minister, was about training and the ability to question people, including in ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Do you mean the machinery within the college, if they are sitting on the board, or the whole machinery?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I imagine that it is both: the ability to influence a board decision and also the way in which, for example, the management of the joint committee is held an...
Graeme Dey
SNP
You are referring to a negotiating committee.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Yes.
Graeme Dey
SNP
I agree with you, and there is no doubt that there is scope for doing this far better than is currently the situation. However, we need to get agreement on w...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I very much welcome the instrument, and I think that it will go some way towards resolving some concerns. However, I am interested in what the process of esc...
Graeme Dey
SNP
The regional set-ups congest the landscape a little bit. To go back to the original point, it is not for ministers, as I have kept saying, to intervene in in...
Ross Greer
Green
In the interests of time, I thank the minister for that update, which was useful.
The Convener
Con
Thank you for your answers, minister. As members have nothing further to add, we move to the formal debate on the instrument on which we have just taken evi...
The Convener
Con
I thank the minister and his officials for their time this morning. I suspend the meeting until 9.20 to allow the minister and his officials to leave before ...