Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 June 2011
15 Jun 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Taking Scotland Forward: Justice
I acknowledge Christine Grahame’s contribution and associate myself with much of what she said in relation to the Justice Committee. Last month, the First Minister introduced to the Parliament his vision for the next five years, which is underpinned, as he said, by a social wage. Although he stopped short of fully explaining his concept, many have linked the social wage to the 16th century philosophy of the social contract. The Parliament should be reminded that a key tenet behind such a philosophy is that concluding a social contract between the state and its citizens relies on the proper enforcement of laws by the state. The enforcement of laws provides protection and freedom for all, including the weak and poor in our communities, enabling them to contribute to our society. However, legislation that is worthy of enforcement requires proper review and scrutiny by members of the Parliament so that we give knowing consent and an authority to the laws that are to be enforced.
In the context of the Government’s anti-sectarianism proposals, the Justice Committee has yet to be circulated with the information on behalf of the Parliament. We therefore have few, if any, days available to debate and review Government proposals on an issue that the Government deems to be a priority. Press reports have indicated that the yet-to-be-seen proposals will be made law by the end of the month, thereby creating an anticipation in the minds of the public. The Government is displaying a cavalier disregard for the very principles that underpin the First Minister’s vision for Scotland for the next five years. That does not demonstrate the inclusive approach that has been promised for this new session of our Parliament.
If the Scottish Parliament is to mature into its rightful position in our constitutional arrangements, its members must be provided with time and due respect from Government ministers to play their individual parts in the creation of Scotland’s future. I make a non-partisan point here and reflect the intentions of our forebears in providing in this Parliament an institution to call Scotland’s Government to account properly. Governments typically find that process an interference and inconvenience, but a true democracy values not only a Government with vision but a strong Parliament that provides accountability.
I turn to our justice secretary’s latest skirmish with the desirability or otherwise of police officers patrolling on our streets. I have sympathy for Mr MacAskill, and I believe that he has been misunderstood by the press and would never make such a comment. In communities across Scotland that are marginalised and threatened by criminality, the presence of effective and visible police officers offers the beginning of a safe and secure environment. It is therefore impossible to believe the cabinet secretary’s comments as reported. After all, the justice secretary has enough on his plate. Among other things, he needs to try to keep prisoners locked up in our prisons and to ensure that sufficient assets are seized from criminals and that actions taken under our drugs policy actually work.
For almost a decade, we have suffered the impact of having around 55,000 problematic drug users in our communities. We spend more than £1 million of public taxes delivering methadone programmes in our prisons. The volume of methadone that is prescribed in the methadone programme in Scotland almost doubled in the three years to 2009, to almost 31,000 litres. Although there is a place for methadone treatment as part of a planned and delivered programme of recovery, future initiatives need to give each drug-addicted person the opportunity for health and a return to wellbeing and gainful employment. I commend Annabel Goldie for maintaining a focus on that area of Government policy.
On the Supreme Court, I draw the justice secretary’s attention to the 11 June edition of The Daily Telegraph, where he will read that the Faculty of Advocates, the Law Society of Scotland, the Scottish Human Rights Commission and the campaign group Justice have all supported the Supreme Court’s sensible and proportionate rulings. Who pays the piper is not the issue—nor should it be. I hope that, as with the comments on patrolling police officers that were attributed to him, the cabinet secretary has again been misunderstood.
Instead of holding summits about football matches and arguing over supreme courts, I would want the justice secretary to attend to the issues that affect normal people and their families and communities. The deaths of young men as a result of knife attacks continue, and their families are grieving. In addition to demanding justice, those families want a positive response from the authorities in order to prevent such crimes from being committed in the future. I can tell the cabinet secretary that the provision of high-profile policing after such events does little to give confidence to communities that are facing criminality week after week.
I do not doubt the justice secretary’s sincerity in offering his sympathy, but we need to know what his plans are in this regard. Will he ensure that the victims will be placed at the centre of our criminal justice system and will he acknowledge that Children 1st continues to report the negative experiences that youngsters who attend court face? Will he share with us his intentions and will he offer to work in tandem with the Opposition parties in delivering, through the Justice Committee, actions that work and positive outcomes?
15:41
In the context of the Government’s anti-sectarianism proposals, the Justice Committee has yet to be circulated with the information on behalf of the Parliament. We therefore have few, if any, days available to debate and review Government proposals on an issue that the Government deems to be a priority. Press reports have indicated that the yet-to-be-seen proposals will be made law by the end of the month, thereby creating an anticipation in the minds of the public. The Government is displaying a cavalier disregard for the very principles that underpin the First Minister’s vision for Scotland for the next five years. That does not demonstrate the inclusive approach that has been promised for this new session of our Parliament.
If the Scottish Parliament is to mature into its rightful position in our constitutional arrangements, its members must be provided with time and due respect from Government ministers to play their individual parts in the creation of Scotland’s future. I make a non-partisan point here and reflect the intentions of our forebears in providing in this Parliament an institution to call Scotland’s Government to account properly. Governments typically find that process an interference and inconvenience, but a true democracy values not only a Government with vision but a strong Parliament that provides accountability.
I turn to our justice secretary’s latest skirmish with the desirability or otherwise of police officers patrolling on our streets. I have sympathy for Mr MacAskill, and I believe that he has been misunderstood by the press and would never make such a comment. In communities across Scotland that are marginalised and threatened by criminality, the presence of effective and visible police officers offers the beginning of a safe and secure environment. It is therefore impossible to believe the cabinet secretary’s comments as reported. After all, the justice secretary has enough on his plate. Among other things, he needs to try to keep prisoners locked up in our prisons and to ensure that sufficient assets are seized from criminals and that actions taken under our drugs policy actually work.
For almost a decade, we have suffered the impact of having around 55,000 problematic drug users in our communities. We spend more than £1 million of public taxes delivering methadone programmes in our prisons. The volume of methadone that is prescribed in the methadone programme in Scotland almost doubled in the three years to 2009, to almost 31,000 litres. Although there is a place for methadone treatment as part of a planned and delivered programme of recovery, future initiatives need to give each drug-addicted person the opportunity for health and a return to wellbeing and gainful employment. I commend Annabel Goldie for maintaining a focus on that area of Government policy.
On the Supreme Court, I draw the justice secretary’s attention to the 11 June edition of The Daily Telegraph, where he will read that the Faculty of Advocates, the Law Society of Scotland, the Scottish Human Rights Commission and the campaign group Justice have all supported the Supreme Court’s sensible and proportionate rulings. Who pays the piper is not the issue—nor should it be. I hope that, as with the comments on patrolling police officers that were attributed to him, the cabinet secretary has again been misunderstood.
Instead of holding summits about football matches and arguing over supreme courts, I would want the justice secretary to attend to the issues that affect normal people and their families and communities. The deaths of young men as a result of knife attacks continue, and their families are grieving. In addition to demanding justice, those families want a positive response from the authorities in order to prevent such crimes from being committed in the future. I can tell the cabinet secretary that the provision of high-profile policing after such events does little to give confidence to communities that are facing criminality week after week.
I do not doubt the justice secretary’s sincerity in offering his sympathy, but we need to know what his plans are in this regard. Will he ensure that the victims will be placed at the centre of our criminal justice system and will he acknowledge that Children 1st continues to report the negative experiences that youngsters who attend court face? Will he share with us his intentions and will he offer to work in tandem with the Opposition parties in delivering, through the Justice Committee, actions that work and positive outcomes?
15:41
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
We now move on to the next item of business, which is a debate on taking Scotland forward—justice.14:37
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
In 2007 we set out to build a safer and stronger Scotland. Working with the police, prosecutors, prisons and other justice partners, we made significant prog...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open on behalf of the Labour Party in my new role as our spokesperson for justice, which is such an important area of responsibi...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I am pleased to be able to speak in this important debate this afternoon. The wide-ranging issues that we are discussing are crucial to our country. It is th...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. Members’ speeches should be no longer than six minutes, unless the member has taken an intervention. The Presiding Officers w...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I shall not take that last part of your remarks personally, Presiding Officer. In this broad debate, I shall focus on criminal justice issues, in particular ...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Provan) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in a justice debate. Unlike others who have made speeches over the past couple of weeks, this is not my maiden speech. Ind...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
The safety of our communities affects us all and is a concern that is raised time and again by neighbourhood and community partnerships, as well as individua...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I am very pleased to have the chance to speak in this important debate on the various wide-ranging issues encompassed by the justice portfolio, and I commend...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Does the member concede that all the cases that have gone to the High Court have had a European Court of Human Rights angle to them?
Annabelle Ewing
SNP
I would not necessarily concede that all the cases have had a major impact on the state of the law as it is, in terms of the Court of Appeal in England havin...
Johann Lamont
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Annabelle Ewing
SNP
I should probably proceed, because I am getting an indication from the Presiding Officer that I should bring my remarks to a conclusion. I argue that we shou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
I am afraid that we are now short of time, so any interventions will have to be contained within the six-minute speeches.15:35
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge Christine Grahame’s contribution and associate myself with much of what she said in relation to the Justice Committee. Last month, the First Mi...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I must first pay a brief tribute to my predecessor in the role of justice spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, Robert Brown. Robert was an insightful and ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alison McInnes
LD
I have been told that I am short of time.Secondly, the time is surely right for concerted action on prison reform. Decent, safe prison conditions and the pro...
Annabelle Ewing
SNP
Alison McInnes will have heard Christine Grahame suggest a sunset clause. Would she and her group support that?
Alison McInnes
LD
I will wait to see the detail of the legislation, but Christine Grahame’s suggestion was offered constructively and we will consider it in that way.When the ...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Northern Constabulary, the force that covers the majority of the region that I represent, is, like all other Scottish forces, an amalgam of several of the sm...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Roderick Campbell, who is making his first speech.15:53
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I begin by acknowledging the contribution of my predecessor, Iain Smith, who served in the Parliament for 12 years and was latterly convener of the Economy, ...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank members for their input to what has been a very interesting debate. I pick up on a point made by Johann Lamont. She said that our justice system sho...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You must close now.
Mary Fee
Lab
Phil Taylor, the regional director of the UK Border Agency for Scotland and Northern Ireland has slammed the ability of the criminal justice system to deal w...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I declare an interest, in that I am a member of Aberdeen City Council and a member of Grampian joint police board. It was disturbing to hear Mary Fee blame t...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member give way?
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Not at the moment.I am pleased that crime is now at a 32-year low. The reason for that is the effort that the cabinet secretary has put in over his term in o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Thank you, and thank you for sticking to your time.I call Mark McDonald to be followed by Helen Eadie. Mark McDonald, you have a very tight six minutes.16:12