Committee
Finance Committee 02 March 2016
02 Mar 2016 · S4 · Finance Committee
Item of business
Fiscal Framework
If we are going to be held to the agreement, we want clarity. So, it is GDP growth, not just “GDP”. The paragraph says that such a “shock is triggered when onshore Scottish GDP is below 1% in absolute terms”. Do you mean in real terms?
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our next item is evidence from the Deputy First Minister on Scotland’s fiscal framework. Mr Swinney is joined for this item by Sean Neill and Alison Byrne, f...
The Convener
SNP
It’ll be 17, if you don’t watch it. My first question was asked by Gavin Brown at a meeting yesterday, so—
Gavin Brown
Con
Do not let that stop you.
The Convener
SNP
I do not want to steal your thunder, so I will go on to my next question. Paragraph 23 of the agreement says: “The fiscal framework does not include or ass...
John Swinney
SNP
In essence, the agreement delivers the outcome that the Scottish Government sought, in terms of the block grant adjustment mechanism; it delivers the outcome...
The Convener
SNP
After months of negotiation, have the positions of both Governments changed? Is there a more bilateral relationship than perhaps there was previously?
John Swinney
SNP
The key characteristic of the discussions, which is reflected in paragraph 23, is that the Scottish Government is in a position to agree with the Treasury an...
The Convener
SNP
That puts things on a much sounder footing. Paragraph 28 of the agreement says: “Revenues from courts and tribunals in Scotland will be retained by the Sco...
John Swinney
SNP
I do not have a figure to hand, but I will certainly write to the committee about that.
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. In the following paragraph, the agreement states: “The implementation dates for welfare will be agreed by the Joint Ministerial Working Group on...
John Swinney
SNP
We will want to make the swiftest possible progress on that. However, as I think I said last week—forgive me, but I appeared in front of two committees on th...
The Convener
SNP
You mentioned it last week.
John Swinney
SNP
We will have to put in place the necessary arrangements to ensure, at the very minimum, continuity of provision to recipients of welfare payments. It will re...
The Convener
SNP
There are 10 paragraphs entitled “Administration and implementation costs”, on which I have a number of questions. It might be easier to ask an overall quest...
John Swinney
SNP
The funds that will be available are clear in the agreement. There will be a one-off transfer of £200 million to support implementation of the powers in the ...
The Convener
SNP
I know that Lord Forsyth and others are unhappy even about the sums of £200 million and £66 million a year, which are set out clearly in the document. I am t...
John Swinney
SNP
There will be a number of stages at which the costs will become apparent. Paragraph 33 of the agreement, for example, puts in place a different cost arrangem...
The Convener
SNP
There has been much discussion about no detriment. There are 10 paragraphs in the agreement under the heading “No detriment due to policy spillover effects”,...
John Swinney
SNP
I can only speculate on what direct effects there might be. In welfare, if the Scottish Government increases eligibility for certain devolved benefits, that ...
The Convener
SNP
I have one more question on capital borrowing before I open up the meeting to questions from colleagues. Paragraph 54 says that “due consideration was given...
John Swinney
SNP
There has to be give and take in a negotiation. My sense is that the UK Government’s approach has been—as it is perfectly entitled to do, within its reserved...
The Convener
SNP
It still seems to me to be anomalous that councils in Scotland can have providential borrowing, but the Scottish Government cannot. I have a further point t...
John Swinney
SNP
When we borrow, we will negotiate for the cheapest available borrowing, to put it bluntly. That is what we will pursue on every occasion.
The Convener
SNP
Previously, there was a concern that you would have to pay above the odds; the UK Government was considering that you would perhaps have to pay 1 per cent or...
John Swinney
SNP
I do not see what justification there would be for that.
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It has been really useful to have the text of the agreement, but the wording of paragraph 66 is perhaps not as clear as it could be. It talks about “A Scotl...
John Swinney
SNP
Yes.
Lesley Brennan
Lab
If we are going to be held to the agreement, we want clarity. So, it is GDP growth, not just “GDP”. The paragraph says that such a “shock is triggered when...
John Swinney
SNP
No.
Lesley Brennan
Lab
What do you mean by “in absolute terms”?