Committee
Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee 06 March 2013
06 Mar 2013 · S4 · Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee
Item of business
“Low Carbon Scotland: Meeting our Emissions Reduction Targets 2013-2027”
Thank you. The issues that you have touched on seem to be very marginal, whereas some of the failures that have been reported to the committee are of a greater order. Do you agree that the problem is really the standard assessment procedure calculation, which is not fit for purpose?I have read the 2007 Sullivan report, to which you have referred. That report indicated that the payback time for some of the technologies—for example, heat pumps—was of the order of 60 years. Although that timescale will have changed somewhat because of rising energy prices, are you concerned that it points to a massive failure in the thinking behind the green deal? Given such payback times, nobody is going to take a loan for technology such as heat pumps. That points to a fundamental flaw in the green deal; and if it does not do its job, that inhibits our overall ability to take advantage of the green deal and reduce our carbon emissions.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Item 2 is an evidence-taking session on the Scottish Government’s report on proposals and policies 2. This morning, we are joined by Fergus Ewing, the Minist...
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
My remarks will be shorter than those of last week, which were on a similar topic.Thank you for inviting me here today to talk about the second draft report ...
The Convener
Con
Thank you, minister.We are fairly tight on time and we have a lot of ground to cover, so I ask members to keep their questions short and focused. If the mini...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Government policies are inherently complex by their nature. In response to the accusation that it is difficult to read across between RPP1 and RPP2, we point...
The Convener
Con
Okay. In a similar vein, another issue that has been raised with us is whether there is enough transparency in the draft report on who is responsible for the...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
As I said, if there are ways in which we can make the document clearer, we would be very happy to consider them. My colleague Mr Peart can consider the pract...
Gavin Peart (Scottish Government)
The consultation is about the new-build standards, as far as building regulations are concerned, for energy. In 2007, the Sullivan panel, which was commissio...
The Convener
Con
Thank you. I remind members that we need to be careful not to stray into the territory of other committees when we are scrutinising the RPP2. We have a fairl...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
Minister, in your opening statement you mentioned decarbonisation. The Scottish Government has set a target for decarbonisation. How helpful would it be if t...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I sought to cover some of that last week. We are consulting on setting a 2030 decarbonisation target for the electricity generation sector. That follows the ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the witnesses from whom we have heard believe that RPP2 will have any chance of meeting the targets only if all the policies and proposals in it are ...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
As I said in my opening statement, we are more than halfway towards achieving our target of reducing emissions by 42 per cent by 2020. Our performance has be...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I direct you to the table on page 163 of RPP2, in which “Additional Technical Potential in Fabric and Energy Efficiency” is a heading. We heard evidence that...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
To be quite candid, I cannot, but I know a man who can and his name is David Fotheringham. From the look of the table on page 163 of RPP2, the matter appears...
The Convener
Con
Please do.
David Fotheringham (Scottish Government)
The technical potential for fabric improvement that RPP2 sets out is based on our modelling for the Scottish housing stock. Our annual Scottish house conditi...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
So you do not know what technologies will be used to realise it. You compare that additional technical potential with some of the other proposals and policie...
David Fotheringham
No—we know what the measures are.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
What are they?
David Fotheringham
There is a long list of measures, which includes things such as solid wall insulation, draught proofing, advanced heating controls and boiler upgrades—
Rhoda Grant
Lab
But we are already doing those things, whereas this will kick in only in 2018.
David Fotheringham
You are right—we are already doing that work, and the national retrofit programme will take it further. However, we recognise that, even with the level of in...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
But the same chart shows that the national retrofit programme will have less of an impact. You say that the national retrofit programme includes insulation a...
David Fotheringham
No—just to clarify, I am saying that the additional technical potential is over and above what we expect to achieve from the national retrofit programme and ...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I really do not follow what you are trying to say. You have mentioned things such as solid wall insulation, which I imagine is in the national retrofit progr...
David Fotheringham
In RPP2 we have made assumptions about the level of investment that would be available through programmes such as the national retrofit programme and through...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
What are the further measures?
David Fotheringham
They are measures such as solid wall insulation, advanced heating controls and boiler upgrades.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
Surely they are included in the retrofit programme.
David Fotheringham
They are. I am saying that the investment that we project from current programmes will do an awful lot of the upgrades that we need, but it will not do all t...