Committee
Finance and Public Administration Committee 17 December 2024
17 Dec 2024 · S6 · Finance and Public Administration Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum
Thank you, convener, and good morning. Before I begin my statement, it will be helpful if I declare some relevant interests. I receive funding for an additional member of staff from three permissible donors—Friends at the End, Dignity in Dying and the Humanist Society Scotland—and the support is currently for a staff member one day per week. The Humanist Society Scotland also funds the development and maintenance costs of the domain and the hosting of a website that I use to publish materials relating to the bill—that was, ostensibly, prior to the formal introduction of the bill. Dignity in Dying paid the costs that were associated with my visit to California as part of a cross-party delegation of MSPs that met various organisations and individuals in relation to the state’s End of Life Option Act, and I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests for more details on that. Members will be aware that I formally introduced the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill in Parliament in March this year, following the usual members’ bills process, with the support of the non-Government bills unit. The bill aims to allow mentally competent terminally ill eligible adults in Scotland to voluntarily choose to be provided with assistance by health professionals to end their own lives. The approach that I have taken in the bill and related accompanying documents is purposefully quite different from that taken in previous proposals and bills on the issue that the Scottish Parliament has considered. The approach and the estimated number of people who may request assistance reflect the bill’s provisions and the form of assisted dying. In effect, I am legislating to allow a relatively small cohort of people who request assistance to end their own lives to be provided with such assistance. There have been suggestions that the numbers involved and, likewise, the costs will be higher than anticipated. However, the jurisdictions where numbers are significantly higher either do not have comparable legislation to the bill that I have introduced or have notably different circumstances from those in Scotland, and the financial memorandum reflects that. My intention from the outset was to introduce a bill that would make it legally possible for terminally ill adults, if assessed as eligible, to be provided by willing health professionals with assistance to end their own lives. I wanted a bill that detailed, as far as possible and within the Scottish Parliament’s competence, the process that is involved before, during and after. The financial memorandum reflects the approach that is taken, the bill’s provisions and the limitations that the accompanying documents acknowledge. To be eligible, a person must be terminally ill, aged 16 or over, have been a resident in Scotland for at least 12 continuous months, be registered with a GP in Scotland and have the mental capacity to make the request. A person must have had health and social care information and options—for example, about palliative and hospice care—and information about assisted dying explained to them prior to making a final decision. A person must also make the decision of their own free will, without coercion or pressure, to the reasonable satisfaction of healthcare professionals. 11:15 The bill will establish a lawful process for an eligible person to access assisted dying that I believe to be safe, controlled and transparent. The process broadly involves a person stating that they wish to be provided with assistance to end their own life and being assessed for eligibility by two doctors, acting independently of each other. If assessed as eligible, a person can give a further indication that they wish to continue and then be provided, at a time of their choosing, with the substance for self-administration to end their own life. I believe that that will give people a choice and enable them to avoid the existential pain, suffering and symptoms that can be associated with terminal illness. In turn, it will afford them autonomy, dignity and control over the end of life. The bill will make it lawful for a person to voluntarily access dying if they meet the criteria as set out in the bill and for willing health professionals to assist in that process, while continuing to ensure that assisting death outwith the bill’s provisions remains unlawful. The bill also provides that no one is compelled to participate directly in the process if they have a conscientious objection to doing so. The provisions ensure that relevant data and information is collected, processed and published in annual reports to aid transparency and understanding. In addition, there will be a requirement for the legislation to be reviewed after five years. That will afford the Scottish Parliament, health and care professions and wider society an opportunity to take stock of the practical experience of assisted dying. The financial memorandum—for the first time with any piece of proposed legislation on this subject in the UK—attempts to estimate the costs and savings that would be associated with implementation and the impacts of such legislation as far as it was felt reasonably possible to do so. That was done in the absence of any precedent for similar enacted legislation in the UK, and with often very little relevant or meaningful data—or, in some cases, none. The approach that is taken in the financial memorandum is based on an estimation of the potential annual number of people who will request an assisted death and the number of people who will go on to self-administer a substance and end their own life. Estimates are provided for the first year in which assisted dying will be available, and the financial memorandum projects the figures over 20 years. Comparable data from Oregon in the US and Victoria in Australia was used to inform those estimates. On the basis of the assumptions and methodologies used in any available meaningful data, estimates for possible costs to the Scottish Administration and for health and care services in Scotland are provided. The memorandum acknowledges that the legislation is likely to result in savings as well as costs, and that, broadly speaking, it is expected to be cost neutral. That is because a cost is associated with the processes that are involved in a person being assessed and potentially provided with assistance to end their own life, such as clinical and associated administration costs, and because there is a commensurate cost saving from a person no longer receiving care for however long they might have lived. International evidence indicates that case numbers are likely to rise annually, certainly in the initial years of assisted dying being available. Therefore, to give an indication of how rising case numbers could affect costs and savings, the memorandum gives estimated figures for year 1 and then on-going costs until year 20. Following the publication of the memorandum, it came to my attention that table 3, which sets out estimated costs to health services, and table 4, which sets out estimated overall costs, conflated some of the year 1 and on-going costs and year 20 estimated costs. I subsequently wrote on 17 June to this committee, as well as to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, to amend and present some of those costs more accurately and clearly. I wrote again to both committees on 14 October to note two other minor discrepancies. The net effect of the issues that are noted in those letters is that the upper-end total estimated costs of the bill are £4,036 higher than those that are estimated in the financial memorandum. Although they are relatively minor, I extend an apology again to the committee for those errors. I read with interest the 22 responses that you received to your call for views, and I thank all of those who took the time to respond. I note that NHS Fife, which was the only health board to respond, considered the estimated costs in the memorandum to be reasonable and the bill to be broadly cost neutral. I welcome the acknowledgment across many responses, including from those who are more critical of the financial memorandum and of the proposal for assisted dying, that attempting to estimate costs in this area is extremely challenging and complex, because of a lack of meaningful data and/or precedent in many of the relevant areas. I noted the issues that were raised in other responses, such as the suggestion that the case numbers are underestimated. I acknowledge that different assumptions can be made and methodologies used that would result in different estimates. Depending on which assumptions are made, one could estimate the cost to be higher than the memorandum does, or indeed to be lower. Frankly, none of us knows exactly how many people might wish to begin the process and how many might go on to be provided with assistance, and one could make a range of different but incompatible estimates. I am satisfied, however, that the assumptions that are made and the methodology that is used in the memorandum are evidence based, that they reflect a justified midpoint of the extremes of opinion and that they provide a reasonable estimate of likely numbers. I also note the comments that the potential costs associated with areas such as training and the provision of support or guidance have been underestimated or excluded. I accept that some organisations and individuals have different thoughts on some of the issues. However, the estimates that are set out in the financial memorandum are based on available evidence, practice and expectations. In relation to the comments about potential savings, I reiterate that, although some savings are likely, saving money is not and never has been a policy aim of the legislation. The bill is about giving terminally ill adults a choice to end their own life if they wish to and are eligible to do so, not to save money. Thank you for your patience, convener. I look forward to answering questions from you and committee members.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
The next agenda item is to take evidence on the financial memorandum for the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill from Liam McArthur, who...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Thank you, convener, and good morning. Before I begin my statement, it will be helpful if I declare some relevant interests. I receive funding for an additio...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you for that helpful opening statement. This is an emotive issue, and I know that colleagues around the table spent a lot of time deliberating over the...
Liam McArthur
LD
I respond by saying that the proposals lean heavily on clinician judgment. At the moment, we trust clinicians to make a range of decisions, including those a...
The Convener
SNP
Conversely, in its submission, the Scottish Partnership for Palliative Care said: “Although assisted dying may lead to some savings ... it is important to r...
Liam McArthur
LD
I have a lot of sympathy for that point. To give a personal example, I was heavily involved in the campaign for the Balfour hospital in Kirkwall to get a CT ...
The Convener
SNP
Having flexibility in the system is important. I remember a similar circumstance a decade or more ago when I was trying to get a dialysis machine for Arran f...
Liam McArthur
LD
I go back to what I said in my opening statement: I do not think that anybody knows. We can draw on the evidence from elsewhere, from which you can quite con...
The Convener
SNP
I do not think that awareness is going to be an issue, to be honest—it is going to be very high. I note that, in the legislation that you are proposing, the...
Liam McArthur
LD
Obviously, the numbers are driven by requests for assisted dying. It is worth pointing out that requests do not necessarily always result in people taking th...
The Convener
SNP
Okay. I am sure that others will touch on the numbers, but the financial memorandum’s estimate of 50 to 100 people by year 3, compared with 300 people in six...
Liam McArthur
LD
I acknowledge that the figures in relation to 90 per cent of people dying at home reflect over the final six months of life, as opposed to the location in wh...
The Convener
SNP
There might be a shift if, indeed, there is not “a duty on NHS boards to provide AD”. We could have a situation, one imagines, where one or two boards coul...
Liam McArthur
LD
As I said before, the bill does not place a duty on anybody to provide the service. There is a robust conscientious objection provision in the proposed legis...
The Convener
SNP
Children’s Hospices Across Scotland has raised similar concerns. The Scottish Partnership for Palliative Care also said that “the Bill makes no provision f...
Liam McArthur
LD
There are provisions in the financial memorandum for oversight, and not just of individuals. I would expect that to be a requirement of how organisations are...
The Convener
SNP
I think that that is taken on board. From our perspective, the issue is just that no cost has been identified. I will ask only one more question at this poi...
Liam McArthur
LD
The Dutch system operates very differently from the systems in Victoria and in Oregon, which are terminal illness mental capacity jurisdictions. That said, I...
The Convener
SNP
I have a few more questions to ask, but I want to open up the session to colleagues around the table.
Liz Smith
Con
Good morning, Mr McArthur. I will follow on from the question about support, particularly in relation to the voice of young people, following on from some of...
Liam McArthur
LD
The question allows me to put on the public record, for the first time, my gratitude to CHAS. It has responded to the committee’s call for evidence, as it ha...
Liz Smith
Con
I, too, put on record my utter admiration for CHAS, which is a wonderful group that does extraordinary work. Inherent in its submission is a concern that the...
Liam McArthur
LD
Pulling together a financial memorandum of this type is difficult—not only is it unprecedented, but the data and precedent that you would normally rely on in...
Liz Smith
Con
Do you foresee any circumstances where opportunity costs will come into play? Some staff, especially experienced staff, may have to be taken away from treati...
Liam McArthur
LD
I would certainly acknowledge that. Training will be crucial, but we are not reinventing the wheel here, as many of the materials and whatnot exist in other ...
Liz Smith
Con
Thank you.
Michael Marra
Lab
I want to start with the issue of the comparators that you selected, which has been partly covered. Why did you choose to base the numbers more on what has h...
Liam McArthur
LD
I chose to use Oregon and Victoria—in other words, I used two comparators. There are various differences in how healthcare is delivered in the US and how it ...
Michael Marra
Lab
Does the Australian system not represent a better comparator for Scotland than the system in the US?
Liam McArthur
LD
If I had relied solely on Australia, that would have been justified in informing our approach here in the UK, or indeed in Scotland, where health is devolved...