Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 April 2012
25 Apr 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Long Leases (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am afraid that I will repeat much of what has already been said, but I intend to reinforce it.
The bill is similar in nature to the bill that was introduced in November 2010, although it contains some amendments that are based on the Justice Committee’s original findings and recommendations in session 3. Many of the issues in the bill were changed before it came back to the Parliament this session.
The bill aims to convert ultra-long leases to ownerships. The leases are those that are for more than 175 years and have more than 100 years left to run. They will convert to ownership, unless the tenant opts out. The bill will also protect landlords’ rights by providing compensation; clarify the position of lenders; and move away from an unnecessarily complex form of land tenure. As has been said, it is estimated that the bill will affect 9,000 ultra-long leases in Scotland. The committee recommends that the Parliament supports the general principles of the bill, but points out that some issues that were raised in evidence should be considered before stage 2.
Brodies LLP called for clarity on sections 64 and 69, to put beyond doubt what can be included in annual rent. Although the people who gave evidence on that felt that the issue was clear in the explanatory notes, they argued that the same could not be said for the bill.
Another issue is the way in which the bill interacts with the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. There was a call for Registers of Scotland to update the land register to accurately reflect the conversion of ultra-long leases to ownership under the bill. The committee recommends that the land register should be updated to accurately reflect ownership and that the Scottish Government should respond to that concern. I thank the minister for clarifying that individual owners can apply to have the land register updated. The Long Leases (Scotland) Bill might need to be amended at a later date, depending on the way in which it interacts with the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.
Every member who has spoken has raised the issue of common good land, although it is not directly related to the bill. There does not appear to be a comprehensive list of common good assets that local authorities throughout Scotland hold. The committee noted that it would be a complex task to compile a register that is 100 per cent accurate. It would be expensive and time consuming to produce a list of all common good properties, but that should be considered. I hope that officials will work with local authorities on that. During the evidence taking on the bill, the small number of common good properties that we are aware will be affected by the bill more than doubled, from four to nine. As common good leases are in the public interest, the committee calls on the Scottish Government to work with councils to find better ways to collect information so that we better understand the effect that the bill will have on common good properties.
The committee took evidence on the City of Edinburgh Council’s request for the Waverley market site to be exempt. That is a complex case. Based on the information that was provided, the committee decided that the case had not been made and that we could not say whether the Waverley market should be exempt. I am glad to hear that the minister is investigating ways of addressing the issue.
The committee urges the Parliament to support the general principles of the bill and to allow it to progress, but calls on the Scottish Government to investigate further the issues that have been raised in the debate, some of which do not arise directly from the bill.
16:28
The bill is similar in nature to the bill that was introduced in November 2010, although it contains some amendments that are based on the Justice Committee’s original findings and recommendations in session 3. Many of the issues in the bill were changed before it came back to the Parliament this session.
The bill aims to convert ultra-long leases to ownerships. The leases are those that are for more than 175 years and have more than 100 years left to run. They will convert to ownership, unless the tenant opts out. The bill will also protect landlords’ rights by providing compensation; clarify the position of lenders; and move away from an unnecessarily complex form of land tenure. As has been said, it is estimated that the bill will affect 9,000 ultra-long leases in Scotland. The committee recommends that the Parliament supports the general principles of the bill, but points out that some issues that were raised in evidence should be considered before stage 2.
Brodies LLP called for clarity on sections 64 and 69, to put beyond doubt what can be included in annual rent. Although the people who gave evidence on that felt that the issue was clear in the explanatory notes, they argued that the same could not be said for the bill.
Another issue is the way in which the bill interacts with the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. There was a call for Registers of Scotland to update the land register to accurately reflect the conversion of ultra-long leases to ownership under the bill. The committee recommends that the land register should be updated to accurately reflect ownership and that the Scottish Government should respond to that concern. I thank the minister for clarifying that individual owners can apply to have the land register updated. The Long Leases (Scotland) Bill might need to be amended at a later date, depending on the way in which it interacts with the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.
Every member who has spoken has raised the issue of common good land, although it is not directly related to the bill. There does not appear to be a comprehensive list of common good assets that local authorities throughout Scotland hold. The committee noted that it would be a complex task to compile a register that is 100 per cent accurate. It would be expensive and time consuming to produce a list of all common good properties, but that should be considered. I hope that officials will work with local authorities on that. During the evidence taking on the bill, the small number of common good properties that we are aware will be affected by the bill more than doubled, from four to nine. As common good leases are in the public interest, the committee calls on the Scottish Government to work with councils to find better ways to collect information so that we better understand the effect that the bill will have on common good properties.
The committee took evidence on the City of Edinburgh Council’s request for the Waverley market site to be exempt. That is a complex case. Based on the information that was provided, the committee decided that the case had not been made and that we could not say whether the Waverley market should be exempt. I am glad to hear that the minister is investigating ways of addressing the issue.
The committee urges the Parliament to support the general principles of the bill and to allow it to progress, but calls on the Scottish Government to investigate further the issues that have been raised in the debate, some of which do not arise directly from the bill.
16:28
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02682, in the name of Stewart Stevenson, on the Long Leases (Scotland) Bill. As we have quite a bit of ti...
The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson)
SNP
I look forward with eager anticipation to the thoughtful and helpful interventions that members from around the chamber will make.The bill that I bring to Pa...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Will the minister clarify what a Blairgowrie lease is, for the benefit of those of us who do not know what such leases involve?
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
The Blairgowrie lease is a local form that has a high degree of informality but is nonetheless capable of being implemented in law. Some people have said tha...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
The minister mentioned that a bill was introduced in the previous session of Parliament. The question of registration was addressed in that bill. Why has the...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I have a little more to say about that; I will, perhaps, expand on it in the light of Alex Fergusson’s question.As the report notes, Registers of Scotland ha...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
As has been noted, the bill will convert ultra-long leases of more than 175 years into ownership. The Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to take part in the debate and I thank the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee for its work on the bill. The hours that the ...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
We are faced with practical difficulties, which we must all consider. A case has been brought to my attention in which a very small piece of land was being s...
Claire Baker
Lab
The minister gave a good example of the difficulties that we face in relation to common good land. However, MSPs find it frustrating when constituents come t...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
I am more than happy to take part in this debate, but I come to it from a position of considerable disadvantage, given that the committee’s commendable and t...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I am not necessarily going to debate the number, but I will make a point that we might think about. The debate about whether Waverley market is common good l...
Alex Fergusson
Con
I am grateful to the minister for that intervention. I entirely accept what he has said, but that simply highlights the complexity of the whole area.Although...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes. There is a little bit of time for interventions, but not too much.16:02
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
As the deputy convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, which is the lead scrutiny committee for the Long Leases (Scotland) Bi...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The bill has been a long time coming. As we have heard, it was considered by the Justice Committee in session 3 before it came to the Rural Affairs, Climate ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I would be grateful if you could come to a conclusion.
Claudia Beamish
Lab
Scottish Labour supports the bill, in our quest for fairness and in consideration of the public interest.16:11
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
The Government estimates that 9,000 leases will be affected by the bill, but one has commanded a disproportionate amount of attention: that of Princes mall, ...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
It might be useful if I indicated at this stage that I would be happy to meet the member.
Marco Biagi
SNP
I am most grateful to the minister. Improvements to bills are a natural part of the parliamentary process and should be welcomed.A number of points have been...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
As we know, long leases are similar to feus; there is little difference in how they work. Following up on the issue of long leases seems to be the logical ne...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome today’s debate. I congratulate the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, in particular Rob Gibson as the convener of the committ...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am afraid that I will repeat much of what has already been said, but I intend to reinforce it.The bill is similar in nature to the bill that was introduced...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Scottish Law Commission for its hard work in producing the template from which the bill has come. I note once again that, in previous years, we h...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
That is one of the two leases that we have identified that are covered by a Government act. It is covered by a private act that went through Westminster in 1...
Nigel Don
SNP
I thank the minister for clarifying that. That brings some relief, although all such things are subject to further clarification and we must ensure that we g...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I declare an interest as a councillor on the City of Edinburgh Council.The reasons why we have long leases in Scotland are largely historical. They were crea...
Alex Fergusson
Con
I had to smile slightly at the minister’s opening remarks. If I picked him up rightly, he said, “If Parliament agrees” the bill. The reason for my slight smi...
Claire Baker
Lab
I am pleased to be closing for the Labour Party. The debate has been wide ranging and complex. I particularly liked Alex Fergusson’s description of the bill ...