Chamber
Plenary, 10 Jan 2008
10 Jan 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Spending Review 2007
Manufacturing is an issue but, as Mr Harvie knows, the Labour-led Executive created a number of modern apprenticeships in a number of different disciplines over the eight years for which it was in power. We should not forget that the most worrying factor is that this Government has no targets for modern apprenticeships.
If the Government thinks that 50,000 nondescript training places are a substitute for the 50,000 modern apprenticeships per year that Labour would have delivered, I suggest that it should read the Leitch report to find out what the real challenges are. Once the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has read the Leitch report, if she still thinks that the provision of 50,000 training places compares well with the 7 million comparable places that are being rolled out across the rest of the UK, I suggest that she should go for a lie down in a darkened room. Frankly, zero targets for modern apprenticeships does not compare well with anything.
The fact that the Government has made no commitment, financial or otherwise, to increasing apprentice numbers sends out completely the wrong message to employers, who will think that it is okay not to train their own employees. Exasperated by the lack of opportunities, young Scots will give up looking for slots. Everyone is telling me—they must be telling the Government, as well—that the Government must provide leadership on modern apprenticeships.
For me, the most disappointing aspect of the SNP Government's behaviour, in a Parliament of minorities, is that it appears that it does not want to be seen to provide financial support specifically for modern apprenticeships because they are seen as a Labour Party priority, both here in Scotland and south of the border. In other words, its motivation is purely political.
Before the end of last year, in a parliamentary question to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, I asked what targets the Scottish Government would set for training modern apprentices. Her response was:
"We will not overburden Skills Development Scotland with volume based targets, as these in isolation can drive behaviour."—[Official Report, Written Answers, 4 December 2007; S3W-6985.]
I say to the cabinet secretary that the whole point of investing and setting targets in training is about changing behaviour. There is a lesson from the recent past on that issue. The last Tory Government cut Government funding for training and left workforce development to the free market. We are still paying the price for that approach, through skills shortages and a culture wherein training is seen as a cost rather than an investment by many businesses.
Over the past 10 years or so, significant progress has been made in encouraging employers to change course and recognise the importance of workforce development for performance, productivity and staff retention.
In conclusion, I am deeply concerned about the message that the Government is sending out with its budget priorities. It is giving business the clear message, "We're not setting any targets on apprenticeships, so you don't have to provide any apprentice places. By the way, here's a cut in your business rates—spend it as you like." Ironically, businesses will probably have to spend any future tax cuts that they get from the Government on staff wages in a few years' time, when skill shortages get even worse as a result of the Government's flawed policy on workplace training.
I assure the Parliament that I take no pleasure in making such points because, in reality, the long-term ability of our economy to help deliver social justice is being undermined by the budget, and I am sure that no member wants to see that.
If the Government thinks that 50,000 nondescript training places are a substitute for the 50,000 modern apprenticeships per year that Labour would have delivered, I suggest that it should read the Leitch report to find out what the real challenges are. Once the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has read the Leitch report, if she still thinks that the provision of 50,000 training places compares well with the 7 million comparable places that are being rolled out across the rest of the UK, I suggest that she should go for a lie down in a darkened room. Frankly, zero targets for modern apprenticeships does not compare well with anything.
The fact that the Government has made no commitment, financial or otherwise, to increasing apprentice numbers sends out completely the wrong message to employers, who will think that it is okay not to train their own employees. Exasperated by the lack of opportunities, young Scots will give up looking for slots. Everyone is telling me—they must be telling the Government, as well—that the Government must provide leadership on modern apprenticeships.
For me, the most disappointing aspect of the SNP Government's behaviour, in a Parliament of minorities, is that it appears that it does not want to be seen to provide financial support specifically for modern apprenticeships because they are seen as a Labour Party priority, both here in Scotland and south of the border. In other words, its motivation is purely political.
Before the end of last year, in a parliamentary question to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, I asked what targets the Scottish Government would set for training modern apprentices. Her response was:
"We will not overburden Skills Development Scotland with volume based targets, as these in isolation can drive behaviour."—[Official Report, Written Answers, 4 December 2007; S3W-6985.]
I say to the cabinet secretary that the whole point of investing and setting targets in training is about changing behaviour. There is a lesson from the recent past on that issue. The last Tory Government cut Government funding for training and left workforce development to the free market. We are still paying the price for that approach, through skills shortages and a culture wherein training is seen as a cost rather than an investment by many businesses.
Over the past 10 years or so, significant progress has been made in encouraging employers to change course and recognise the importance of workforce development for performance, productivity and staff retention.
In conclusion, I am deeply concerned about the message that the Government is sending out with its budget priorities. It is giving business the clear message, "We're not setting any targets on apprenticeships, so you don't have to provide any apprentice places. By the way, here's a cut in your business rates—spend it as you like." Ironically, businesses will probably have to spend any future tax cuts that they get from the Government on staff wages in a few years' time, when skill shortages get even worse as a result of the Government's flawed policy on workplace training.
I assure the Parliament that I take no pleasure in making such points because, in reality, the long-term ability of our economy to help deliver social justice is being undermined by the budget, and I am sure that no member wants to see that.
In the same item of business
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NPA
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Iain Gray:
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Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
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Can Iain Gray give us three examples of amendments that he will lodge and tell us where he will make cuts to fund the additional expenditure?
Iain Gray:
Lab
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The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney):
SNP
I am delighted to be able to take part in another debate on the spending review. When I heard about the topic of the debate last Friday, I was not sure on wh...
Iain Gray:
Lab
The cabinet secretary is now hiding behind the Parliament's budget process. That is a disgrace. Two weeks from now, when he brings the budget bill to Parliam...
John Swinney:
SNP
That was a pathetic response to my comments. If the Labour Party had seriously wanted to influence my thinking about the budget, it would have been reasonabl...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I ask you to clarify that the reports that are being compiled by the committees on the budget process are private doc...
Alex Neil:
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Let me deal with Richard Baker's point of order first, if I may.The reports on the committee's deliberations are private, but anything that is already in the...
Alex Neil:
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Although the committee reports are still private, is not it the case that any party is free to put forward in the deb...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I do not think that that is a point of order, but it is a reality.
John Swinney:
SNP
That makes my point. The debate is not listed in the Business Bulletin as a committee debate; it is a Labour Party debate, in which it is only reasonable for...
Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab):
Lab
I do not claim to be doing that. Does the cabinet secretary accept that there is an opportunity at the Finance Committee next week for Labour Party amendment...
John Swinney:
SNP
We are back to having our cake and eating it. If the Labour Party wants to have a debate about the spending review and to advance its proposals, what is stop...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney:
SNP
I want to cover more ground; I have already been generous in giving way.The Government has proposed a budget that addresses the needs of the people of Scotla...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab):
Lab
If that is the case, cabinet secretary, why are you not consistent in your approach?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Please speak through the chair.
Margaret Curran:
Lab
I apologise, Presiding Officer, through you then. Why have you therefore kept ring fencing, cabinet secretary—Laughter—for some elements of funding to tackle...
John Swinney:
SNP
We are having a morning of having our cakes and eating them. A lot of cakes are being eaten on the Labour benches. I thought that we were all supposed to be ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Derek Brownlee to speak to and move amendment S3M-1105.2.1, which seeks to amend amendment S3M-1105.2, in the name of John Swinney. After all that, Mr...
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Labour's motion refers to"the difficulties faced by subject committees in scrutinising the Spending Review 2007".As we all know, the subject committees have ...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
The member will be aware that there was nothing to stop the Finance Committee publishing the committee reports that fed into its report if it so chose. There...
Derek Brownlee:
Con
Indeed, and I wonder how the Liberal Democrat and Labour members of the Finance Committee reacted when that proposal was made. The committee has followed the...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
There is certainly confusion about the situation. There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone in this chamber from making a point about what they think ought ...
Derek Brownlee:
Con
I will take the member's advice on that. It was open to committees, as it was to individual MSPs, to ask for additional information. As I understand it, the ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
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