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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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Showing 43 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
21 Sep 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Scott Barrie opened the debate by confessing that he has to cajole, threaten, persuade, sweet-talk and blackmail Labour members into serving on private bill committees. I leave members to guess which method was deployed in my case. I have suffered while serving on the Edinburg...
Mr Gordon: Lab Chamber
14 Mar 2007
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Final Stage
Absolutely. Electrification will bring many benefits, including superior acceleration of trains, which will assist timetable issues. I am slightly more worried about the rolling stock, but that is merely based on my own operational experience. We are better to buy something of...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
I can see why the issue would be near the front of your mind at board meetings. Paragraphs 536 to 538 of the promoter's response refer to rolling-stock solutions, new class 22 diesel multiple units and a range of other types of rolling stock that are currently on the network. ...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
13 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Talking to manufacturers implies that you are looking for a new product. You would talk to rolling stock companies, which I understand are all owned by banks, if you were thinking about procuring rolling stock off the shelf.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
I am a bit surprised to hear you say that no rail vehicle meets the specification. Could you expand on that? The Heathrow express rolling stock is probably eight or nine years old. It is an example of what was available in the industry at the time, so the industry has already ...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
I want to ask about rolling stock and people with mobility problems. When procuring rolling stock, what consideration will you give to accommodating people with mobility problems? We are talking about access to an airport by train.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Can you comment on other sources of funding for the rolling-stock programme? We touched on that issue earlier, but are there any other committed sources of funding for rolling-stock costs?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Of course. However, as I recall, Mr Mylroi suggested this morning that the banks that own the rolling-stock leasing companies might look for the comfort of a longer franchise period before they make available the finance for investing in the new hybrid rolling stock that we ar...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
Paragraph 11 of the Transport Scotland submission outlines a number of deadlines for the rolling stock programme. Given that deadlines provided to the committee during preliminary stage have, with the best will in the world, already slipped, what margin of slippage has been al...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Surely we already have a comparator in Scotland in the scheduled train services that call at Prestwick airport station; conventional rolling stock in a fixed timetable is trying to cater for the needs of commuters, budget tourists and some businesspeople. How attractive has fl...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Given that rolling-stock upgrades do not form part of the bill or its estimate of expense, how confident are you that the quality and reliability of the EARL service can be delivered?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
13 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Well, as you know, some rolling stock is designed specifically to cater for that. The Heathrow express is an example.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
13 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Am I to understand that you think that nothing suitable is available in the rolling stock marketplace now?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
13 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Are you comfortable with the notion that you might be the first to use a new generation of rolling stock? You do not mind being a guinea pig.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
20 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
I have a point about rolling stock. The committee has heard some evidence that the recommendation is likely to be for class 220 diesel multiple units. Do you have a view about the suitability of that particular type of train and its ability to deal with the challenges?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
20 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Are we talking about off-the-shelf rolling stock? You described it as a hybrid and that sounds to me like an experiment with something that is not running on a network just now.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Do you have a ballpark figure for the cost of the rolling-stock upgrade?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
For the benefit of the committee, will you expand on what you mean by the traditional rolling-stock lease?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
However, we do not have recent examples—or do we?—of people complying with regulations for rolling stock that serves an airport.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
You are aware that, when procuring rolling stock, you will have to combine considerations of airport access with considerations of people with mobility problems.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
My next question is quite lengthy, so I ask you to bear with me. The committee has received a significant amount of evidence that the full realisation of EARL's policy objectives depends on decisions that are yet to be made by a number of other bodies. The example of the rolli...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Given Mr Mylroi's evidence in answer to some of my questions this morning, is it conceivable that, to facilitate rolling-stock procurement for this and other schemes, the Executive will look to negotiate an extension or relet of the ScotRail franchise before the current franch...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Transport Scotland has yet to agree the programme for the rolling-stock purchase or lease but, according to the promoter, you cannot deliver without the new trains. Do you have a view on when the decision will be made and implemented?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Why should the committee not delay consideration of the bill until Transport Scotland has finalised its rolling-stock upgrade programme, particularly in the light of the financial impact of a delay, as identified in paragraph 653 of the promoter's response 1?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
This question seems familiar. Will you elaborate on whether the procurement of new rolling stock is in any way included in the costs of the EARL project?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Given the phased approach to rolling-stock upgrades that is identified in paragraph 705 of the promoter's response, what impact will that have on the frequency and reliability of train services in 2011?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
How confident are you that the new rolling stock can meet the enhanced acceleration performance criteria that Transport Scotland and the promoter have specified? Christine Grahame alluded to that earlier and you refer to it in paragraph 6.5 of your paper.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
What are the barriers to the procurement of rolling stock that meets the criteria?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
I presume that if there is any trade-off in the procurement of rolling stock, you do not want it to be with acceleration capability?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
I want to continue on the issue of rolling stock—
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
As the RailSys modelling has been slightly delayed thus far, how does Transport Scotland intend to avoid delays in rolling stock procurement arising from delays in completing the modelling?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
Paragraph 16 of your additional evidence mentions the element of compromise on the rolling stock's internal layout. Have you resolved that? If so, what was the outcome?
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
The convener will be thrilled to hear that I am moving off rolling stock now. What discussions have you had with the promoter on preparing the EARL tunnel for rail electrification? TIE told us some months ago that electrification can be accommodated within the scheme's propose...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
Surely the current journey time with diesel rolling stock could be reduced by something like that figure if no stops were made except in Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
19 Dec 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Consideration Stage
How confident are you that rolling stock procurement will have been completed prior to the operation of EARL, given the deadlines mentioned by Transport Scotland?
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
14 Mar 2007
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Final Stage
The extent of my admiration and support for the city of Edinburgh is well known. When I was serving as a member of the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill Committee, I heard an early witness for the promoter say that the EARL scheme would make Edinburgh airport Scotland's pre-emi...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
29 Jan 2009
Transport
Sorry, but I do not have time.The Glasgow crossrail project could provide through rail services from south-west Scotland to Edinburgh, the Forth ports and north-east Scotland. Sadly for the minister, on that day he had to attend a scheduled meeting of the cross-party group in ...
Charlie Gordon Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2010
Active Travel
It has been a good debate. The convener comprehensively outlined the committee’s deliberations and recommendations. He nearly succeeded in sticking to that, apart from one sally about the Forth bridge.It was remiss of me not to mention in my opening speech the excellent suppor...
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
08 Mar 2011
Transport (Severe Weather)
On that last point, minister, the new rolling stock did not perform well but the old stuff that was in mothballs did rather better.
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
09 Nov 2006
Housing Stock Transfer
Surely when Tommy Sheridan was a councillor in Glasgow he supported a stock transfer in his ward to the Glen Oaks Housing Association. Is there a whiff of hypocrisy here?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
03 Feb 2010
Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill: Stage 3
No. The member would not take my intervention.Too many members have suggested that GARL is purely a Glasgow project. I am not a Glasgow parochialist, but I plead guilty to being a Glasgow patriot. Moving on from the debate about the country's interests—and I repeat that GARL i...
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Committee
12 Sep 2006
Energy Inquiry
I am interested in how we are examining building standards from the point of view of improving energy conservation, energy efficiency and safety in the home, which is another matter. Building management systems have a great deal of potential in that area. Does the Executive ha...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
31 May 2007
Bridge Tolls
I congratulate Stewart Stevenson on his appointment. I am over here, Stewart. It is taking a bit for me to get used to it too. I expected to see Fergus Ewing sitting there, but a wee wumman at a bus stop in Castlemilk told me that the Greens did not fancy him. Justice's loss i...
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Chamber

Plenary, 21 Sep 2006

21 Sep 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Scott Barrie opened the debate by confessing that he has to cajole, threaten, persuade, sweet-talk and blackmail Labour members into serving on private bill committees. I leave members to guess which method was deployed in my case. I have suffered while serving on the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill Committee, and now it is members' turn.

I will focus on a couple of general principles and address some of the detailed issues that were raised in the debate. On the general issue of tourism, the Executive's white paper "Scotland's transport future" notes that tourism is due to expand by 50 per cent in the next decade. For every 1,000 tourists who used the Edinburgh airport rail link, up to eight full-time equivalent jobs would be supported in the tourism sector. The value of tourism to Scotland is due to be about £13 billion by 2030. The promoter asserts that EARL will unlock several tourism markets, including business tourism for conferences and the short-break market, which is growing strongly. However, the key for that market is that people should be able to access destinations within three hours' travel of the airport. The promoter contends that improved reliability, journey time and the quality of the project will assist us to meet the needs of the short-break market.

The committee was astonished by VisitScotland's lack of engagement with EARL. According to VisitScotland's written evidence, it is the

"lead public sector agency for tourism"

in Scotland and its role is

"to provide leadership and direction for the development of Scottish tourism to ensure we leverage the maximum possible economic benefit".

However, it chose not to give oral evidence and belatedly submitted written evidence on the general principles of the scheme, which is supposed to bring tourism benefits to the whole country. The committee will bring its concerns to the attention of the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, with a view to encouraging more joined-up working between the operator of EARL and VisitScotland.

The committee has concerns about whether the operating times of the scheme will serve the needs of business travellers. For example, the first train from Fife is scheduled for 7 am. We acknowledge that the promoter has analysed peaks of demand at Edinburgh airport and is confident that EARL's operating hours—between 5 am and midnight—will meet demand. As has been said, Network Rail explained that expanding those hours would be extremely challenging.

The committee agreed that the potential to enhance the business case for EARL through extended operating hours may have been missed, given the current operating timetable. If Parliament agrees to the general principles of the bill, we will return to the issue at consideration stage and seek evidence from Network Rail and the promoter on the ability of the rail timetable for the scheme to meet the needs of all airport passengers. The frequency of services could also have an impact on the potential short-break market and, combined with the reduction in reliability that will be experienced on some services, it could limit the market to Lothians and Fife.

On the quality of trains, we remain concerned that rolling stock for EARL has yet to be procured or even specified. Transport Scotland acknowledges that the operation of EARL could be delayed if additional rolling stock is not procured timeously. A number of issues relating to EARL rolling stock have not been resolved. They include the need for additional luggage capacity, the ability of rolling stock to tackle steep gradients, through a tunnel, at the proposed airport station and the fact that the tender for procurement of additional rolling stock will not be completed until the end of 2007. We remain concerned that, in balancing the competing demands for additional capacity on services such as Edinburgh to Glasgow with providing more luggage space on EARL services, there is a danger of having inappropriate or inferior rolling stock.

We heard evidence that the view in the United Kingdom Government's white paper "The Future of Air Transport" and Edinburgh airport's view is that passenger numbers at the airport could rise to between 20 million and 26 million by 2030. That is double the growth that could be predicated using the gross domestic product figures. It was not within the committee's remit to examine the sustainability of or the predictions on future air travel, but we were reassured by the promoter's modelling, which suggested that the predicted growth in passenger numbers would need to fall by 55 per cent before EARL's benefit to cost ratio was seriously hindered.

The committee agrees that, although EARL will facilitate a public transport hub interchange at Edinburgh airport, it will not in itself deliver that. I could make several other points on the scheme, but colleagues, including the minister, have touched on them. Therefore, in my remaining time, I will address some points that were made during the debate.

David McLetchie, in speaking to his amendment, said that he would not have started from here, with two central Scottish airports. That is certainly what was said to the man who was lost—"I wouldn't have started from here." We might add that we would not have started from here procedurally. In essence, we are administering the fag end of a parliamentary procedure that was introduced into the 19th century Westminster Parliament by the Tory landowning class to prevent railways being built. Doesn't it show?

Mr McLetchie was complimentary enough to say that the committee was made up of sceptics. We showed a healthy scepticism and gave the promoter a severe examination. We should be allowed to continue that important work. I do not understand Mr McLetchie's amendment, which asks for information that the committee has made clear it must have before it in the next stage of its deliberations. In essence, David McLetchie has said that there is not enough information. However, on the desk beside me, there are a couple of thousand pages of information. Mr McLetchie does not think that that is enough, which leads me to speculate that Edinburgh lawyers must have a system of payment that is based on piece-work.

Fergus Ewing said that the costs of £620 million are excessive and unknown—of course, they cannot be both. I gather that he thinks that the scheme is too dear. He does not want Edinburgh airport to be connected to 62 other stations in Scotland; he wants it to be connected only to the city of Edinburgh by a cheap and cheerful scheme, so that other cheap and cheerful schemes can be built in other parts of the country. He identified issues that the committee has already identified, such as the fact, to which I referred, that the required rolling stock for the scheme does not yet exist.

Christine Grahame quoted extensively from the committee's report, which is fine but, in view of the fact that the benefit to cost ratio for the Borders rail line is not particularly strong, it was imprudent of her politically to go in so hard against the Edinburgh airport rail link. Jamie McGrigor said that we did not get enough information about the Turnhouse alternative, but there are 105 pages of information on that—I do not know whether he read them and what he quoted from.

When it comes to the Greens, I could not eat a whole one, but if their opposition to the scheme was successful, they would ensure that the pre-eminent means of access to Edinburgh airport would be the motor car. I rather thought that that might be a pity.

Bruce Crawford said, correctly, that we have to make a leap of faith on the scheme at this stage. He was right that we are early on in the life of the scheme. However, he was wrong when he said that our standing orders do not allow the fairly basic financial detail to be acceptable at this stage.

Donald Gorrie was right—that is a first for me. Margo MacDonald was right as well. It would not be the first time that Gordon Brown has hit the oil producers with a windfall tax, so we do not have a problem with that in principle.

To break out of my quasi-judicial shackles for a moment, I point out that the big political story of the day is the coup d'état in the SNP, carried out by Fergus Ewing against Kenny MacAskill, which saw the SNP turn its back, in a parochial, pork-barrel way, on the development of Edinburgh and Glasgow city regions as the twin engines of economic development in Scotland.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh): Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-4809, in the name of Scott Barrie, that Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Edinburgh Airp...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): Lab
One of the tasks I have to perform in the Parliament is to cajole, threaten, persuade, sweet-talk and even blackmail Labour members into serving on private b...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): SNP
No one in this chamber would dispute that a link to the airport is a good thing—Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Con
Order. Mr Crawford has the floor.
Bruce Crawford: SNP
However, the committee's report says:"The Committee therefore remains exasperated that at this stage it can only confirm that the Scottish Executive will pro...
Scott Barrie: Lab
Mr Crawford should have waited. Further on in my speech I will turn to the issue of funding, and I will address the very points that he raises.As regards eco...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP): SNP
Will the member give us some idea of what impact that operating timetable would have on the east coast main line services than run from Aberdeen to the south...
Scott Barrie: Lab
As I indicated, until the RailSys modelling has been completed later this year, we will not know such details. That is precisely why the committee wishes to ...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
Would those jobs be created if another solution to providing a rail link to the airport was adopted?
Scott Barrie: Lab
I will deal with alternatives to the scheme later in my speech.As the House of Commons Transport Committee's report on ticketing and fares recognised, fare l...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Will Scott Barrie give way?
Scott Barrie: Lab
No. I think that I have taken enough interventions. I really need to get through my speech. The committee examined a number of alternatives proposed by witne...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
You have one minute left.
Scott Barrie: Lab
On all the criteria, all those options were shown to be inferior to the benefits that would be gained from the runway tunnel option. It is calculated that fo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
You should be finishing now, Mr Barrie.
Scott Barrie: Lab
Okay, Presiding Officer.The STAG appraisal showed that Jamie McGrigor's preferred option was inferior, with reduced patronage, reduced opportunities for a pu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
No, Mr Barrie. Regarding the end, maybe.
Scott Barrie: Lab
Presiding Officer, I took three interventions, and the funding—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
I do not care how many interventions you have taken. You have now spoken for 12 minutes, and you were allowed to make an 11-minute speech.
Scott Barrie: Lab
It is unfortunate that I am unable to talk about funding, but perhaps I will be able to intervene on somebody who has intervened on me.On the basis of what I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
I remind members that, if I ask them to stop, that is exactly what I mean. A considerable number of members wish to speak in the debate, and I am trying hard...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con): Con
A visitor to Scotland from abroad would undoubtedly regard it as surprising that there are no rail links servicing the existing airports at Glasgow and Edinb...
The Minister for Transport (Tavish Scott): LD
I suggest that David McLetchie speak to BAA about buses because its position is clear: it will not allow buses to flow through the airport to his proposed st...
David McLetchie: Con
I do not dispute that there are projects that are desirable. We can have the full monty—the expensive, extravagant option—or we can have a more modest projec...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): SNP
The Scottish National Party also supports an alternative rail link from the airport to the city, but not the Turnhouse link. Does Mr McLetchie agree that the...
David McLetchie: Con
That would certainly be a possibility, but if Mr Ewing looks at my amendment, he will see that I ask the promoter and the Scottish Executive to collaborate i...
The Minister for Transport (Tavish Scott): LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in support of the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill this afternoon. I thank Scott Barrie, the committee and all who...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): SNP
I draw the Parliament's attention to an entry in my register of interests.Is the minister aware that runway 30/12 is little used and that the long-term plans...
Tavish Scott: LD
The Scottish National Party tries to say that it is not against the bill, but it is, and that intervention proves it. Yes, I have read the master plan—that i...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Will the minister give way?