Committee
Public Petitions Committee, 22 Mar 2006
22 Mar 2006 · S2 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Forth Road Bridge (PE943 and PE942)
I will follow up John Scott's point to Mr Booth. Mr Booth should take Mr Scott's point seriously, because we have a fairly recent practical example of such a dilemma. Before local government reorganisation in 1996, I had political responsibility for the Kingston bridge—another bridge that was maybe going to fall down one day if it was not repaired, although it is a reinforced concrete bridge rather than a steel bridge. Mr Booth should be wary of saying that his view is the most financially prudent, because the operational dislocation of building a new bridge must be considered. The problem is not the bridge structure but the approach roads. Building a new bridge will cause much inconvenience and dislocation to existing traffic and transport systems, whether it is an additional crossing or a replacement crossing.That is why, ultimately, my council went for the on-going repair of the Kingston bridge. We considered building a new crossing over the Clyde, adjacent to the Kingston bridge. When the repair project was analysed over a decade, it was slightly more expensive than a new crossing, but it caused far less inconvenience to the west of Scotland's traffic system than building a new crossing over the Clyde would have. I suspect that the case might be the same for the Forth.Just to be even-handed, I take issue with what Mr Hood has said, too. He keeps referring to a second Forth bridge. I would argue that there are three bridges over the Forth: the Forth road bridge, the Kincardine road bridge and the Forth rail bridge. Is he not really arguing for a fourth Forth bridge?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Michael McMahon):
Lab
Good morning and welcome to the sixth meeting in 2006 of the Public Petitions Committee.Item 1 is consideration of new petitions. The first petitions are PE9...
Mark Hood:
I thank members of the committee for taking the time to take evidence on my petition for a second Forth crossing. I start by explaining why I believe that su...
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you.Mr Spaven may address the committee.
David Spaven (TRANSform Scotland):
Thank you, convener. I am the chair of TRANSform Scotland, which is the campaign for sustainable transport. We are an umbrella group that represents 60 organ...
The Convener:
Lab
Members may ask questions of either of the petitioners, or of both, and we shall see how the debate develops. This is a new way of doing things for us. We do...
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab):
Lab
Mr Hood referred to specific figures for HGV traffic. Can either witness give us some more figures, particularly in relation to northbound movement? I would ...
Chas Booth (Friends of the Earth Scotland):
The draft local transport strategy from the Forth Estuary Transport Authority contains figures on use of the bridge. According to FETA, 70 per cent of cars a...
Mr Gordon:
Lab
How does car commuting compare proportionately to HGV traffic?
Chas Booth:
I do not have specific details about that. I suspect that it will be in the local transport strategy. It is quite a lengthy document that runs to more than 1...
Mr Gordon:
Lab
My question is important because Mr Hood emphasised the Forth road bridge's role in the national and regional economy in terms of freight movements by heavy ...
David Spaven:
That is a fair point. In transport debates, passenger transport often gets all the attention because people have votes whereas freight does not. However, the...
Mr Gordon:
Lab
If I was driving from Glasgow to Fife, I might consider the Kincardine bridge as an option. However, my perception is that the trunk roads on the north bank ...
David Spaven:
The decision that a haulier makes will involve a trade-off in relation to the time difference, the cost difference and the reliability of the route. It is ha...
Mr Gordon:
Lab
Would the roads around the Kincardine bridge need first to be improved?
David Spaven:
Although TRANSform Scotland is against major new road building, we have never said that we are against road building per se. For example, on roads that have ...
Rosie Kane (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
I thank the witnesses for their evidence.We need to take a longer-term and wider view. Although the Forth road bridge is topical at the moment and has been s...
Mark Hood:
I said specifically that building a second road bridge would probably not be a long-term sustainable solution for exactly the reasons that Rosie Kane has giv...
Chas Booth:
I will pick up on the points that Rosie Kane made. She is right that what Mr Hood appears to propose is to predict the growth of traffic and to provide the r...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I will direct my questions at Mr Booth and Mr Spaven.When Professor David Begg was chairman of the south-east Scotland transport partnership and was in charg...
Chas Booth:
The general principle is that we should not put additional burdens on people unless an alternative is available. However, 70 per cent of cars at peak times a...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
Would you care to comment on the security issues for frail and vulnerable passengers who take part in lift sharing, particularly with people whom they may no...
David Spaven:
On the first question, about David Begg's comments, we accept that it cannot be a case of using only the stick or only the carrot. The stick and the carrot m...
Chas Booth:
Corrosion in the bridge's main cables is an issue, but FETA has proposed various alternatives to building a replacement bridge and we argue that all the alte...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
I have arranged for the bridgemaster to give my colleagues and me a presentation at 1 o'clock today, so we will get the detail then.The ferry from Burntislan...
David Spaven:
I mentioned earlier that we felt that there was a need for a transport planning and development solution. One of our worries is that, if we keep providing ro...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
There are two now.
David Spaven:
Well, that is a 100 per cent improvement.The reality is that most people who travel from Fife to Glasgow have to come into Edinburgh. Haymarket is quite a go...
Mark Hood:
In the additional information on my petition, I said that there are a number of things that we can do in the short to medium term. We should consider them, b...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con):
Con
Notwithstanding the good ideas and improvements that David Spaven and Chas Booth have suggested, you argue that Fife's economy will be marginalised if curren...
Mark Hood:
As I mentioned, we do not have security. That has a big impact on Fife's economy because anybody who is looking to invest in the area wants to ensure that th...