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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
12 Jan 2006
Local Government Finance
To a greater or lesser extent, each of the Opposition parties in the debate claims that it wants enough money for local councils, partially or wholly funded by a new and more popular type of local taxation. I have news for them: there is never enough money and people never lik...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
03 Feb 2010
Point of Order
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The Glasgow airport rail link project was approved by the Glasgow Airport Rail Link Act 2007, with an accompanying financial memorandum giving project costs as £160 million at 2004 prices. Expenditure on GARL in the current financial yea...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab) Lab Chamber
12 Jan 2011
“Report on Low Carbon Scotland: The Draft Report on Proposals and Policies”
I congratulate the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee on the thoroughness of its inquiry into “Low Carbon Scotland: The Draft Report on Proposals and Policies”—which from here on in, like the minister, I will refer to as the RPP—and on the clarity of its re...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
08 May 2008
Effective Public Services
The Scottish Government's stated aspiration to have less bureaucratic public services is inseparable from the broader issues around the efficiency and, indeed, the funding of those services.Some of the smoke generated by the Scottish Government thus far on its anti-bureaucrati...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
03 Feb 2010
Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill: Stage 3
No, I have already taken an intervention. I want to move on.GARL is not simply a Labour shibboleth. Derek Brownlee, clearly daunted by the prospect of finding £11 million a year for GARL for 30 years out of a budget of £35 billion—in other words, 0.03 per cent of the budget—tr...
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
14 Dec 2010
“Low Carbon Scotland”
I accept that, as you said, the Scottish budget is not only about the Scottish Government’s finance. In some respects, the Scottish Government’s draft budget for next year is the launch pad for the RPP. Given that it is a single-year budget, does that sound a clear enough call...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab) Lab Chamber
13 Jan 2011
Freight Facilities Grants
I congratulate my colleague Cathy Jamieson on bringing to the chamber a debate that is at once important and very topical.At the December 7 meeting of the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee, I pressed the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
22 Feb 2006
New Petitions
Is the petition essentially about maintaining the supporting people budget in Fife at its current levels and preventing it from being reduced, or do you want that budget to be increased so that unmet need can be addressed?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Nov 2007
Budget Process 2008-09
How should the transport sector contribute to the Government's target of 2 per cent per annum efficiency savings across the public sector in the budget?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Nov 2007
Budget Process 2008-09
The Scottish Government's budget assumes 2 per cent efficiency savings, and everybody will need to contribute towards that. How can transport do that?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Nov 2007
Budget Process 2008-09
I appreciate that the Scottish Government is not top-slicing your funds, but whether constituent authorities top-slice regional transport partnerships' funds is an open question—however, that is, as they say in Castlemilk, entirely by the way. What are the likely implications ...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
Are any other problems or risks associated with the introduction of carbon accounting in the Scottish Government budget?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
My final question is about the other side of the coin. What would be the most effective carbon accounting methodology for the Scottish Government budget?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
Are there problems or risks associated with the introduction of carbon accounting to the Scottish Government budget?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
You have referred to the figures that the ministers have provided to the committee—I think you are referring to the annex to the letter to our convener from John Swinney. That annex mentions a gross figure, in one context, of £397.5 million. That is the figure that Mr Swinney ...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
03 Nov 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
Is there sufficient flexibility in the current budget to pursue such an approach?
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
11 Feb 2009
Local Government Finance Act 1992 (Scotland) Order 2009
I applaud the demise of the proposed local income tax not just for administrative and political reasons but for constitutional reasons, because a centrally set so-called local income tax would have removed effective local democracy from Scottish councils.Today's order will giv...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
07 May 2009
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE · Southern General Hospital (Clyde Fastlink)
Can I take it then that the health budget could supplement Stewart Stevensons transport budget for the project?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
04 Nov 2009
Glasgow Airport Rail Link
I made it clear that Labour has a strong commitment to additional expenditure on social housing, but we do not see it as a question of either/or. Accelerated capital might indeed be part of the solution to the reinstatement of GARL, but as the cabinet secretary knows, at yeste...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
29 Sep 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
The assessment document says:"carbon costs need to be weighed against other objectives that spending programmes are intended to deliver."At the start of the meeting, each of you recounted to the committee your personal involvement in getting the work to this stage. Without rep...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Chamber
10 Dec 2009
Concessionary Travel Scheme
When we are discussing future financial administration, real terms is the realistic way to look at things.The issue is not just the significance of smart cards. Leonard Cheshire Disability has pointed out the rather disappointing review when it considered including lower rate ...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Chamber
03 Feb 2010
Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill: Stage 3
Four times a month, I have what I call my reality check when I hold my surgery. I meet people and listen to them. At the moment, what comes up time and again is that people are worried about their jobs and their homes. I am not putting myself above any other MSP, but I try to ...
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
30 Nov 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
Gentlemen, I have a question on buses. The draft budget maintains the level of the bus service operators grant—indeed, to be fair, it was recently the subject of something like a 10 per cent increase. Of course, there is also the capped provision of £180 million per annum for ...
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
30 Nov 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
The figures in the draft budget are being presented at a time when some local commercial bus services are being withdrawn as a result—the bus operators have suggested or implied—of the level of bus service operators grant or the capped level of compensation for the free travel...
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
07 Dec 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
I start with a brief question about the air services budget, in which there is a slight move from resource to capital of around £200,000 in cash terms. Can you tell us a bit more about what that involves?
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
07 Dec 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
Can you tell us notionally what the effect would be on the draft Scottish Government budget for next year of fare increases in ScotRail of RPI plus 3 per cent, as per the UK Government?
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
07 Dec 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
Do you believe that, in relation to transport, the draft budget has optimised the carbon value-for-money potential?
Charlie Gordon Lab Committee
07 Dec 2010
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2011-12
I will put to you what some members of the Freight Transport Association put to me about the budget at a recent meeting. There is no lack of aspiration or, indeed, applications to draw down money from the freight facilities grant, but members of the FTA find that, when they ge...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
Surely we already have a comparator in Scotland in the scheduled train services that call at Prestwick airport station; conventional rolling stock in a fixed timetable is trying to cater for the needs of commuters, budget tourists and some businesspeople. How attractive has fl...
Mr Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Jun 2006
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link Bill: Preliminary Stage
I am unlikely to forget Prestwick, Mr Halden. I actually cited it this morning when I asked another witness about potential operational experience, because I am interested in how we balance the needs of business travellers, budget tourists, commuters and so on.
Mr Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Committee
23 May 2006
Structural Funds 2007-13 Inquiry
My question is for Mr Malone. Mr Russell impressed me with the figure of 3.5 per cent expenditure on admin costs. He said that that was a pretty impressive percentage compared with some that he could mention. You then gave the figure of 2 per cent. I am sometimes too fast a li...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Nov 2007
Budget Process 2008-09
Well, efficiency savings—that does not necessarily mean cuts. Does your part of the transport industry in Scotland have any views on how you might contribute to those savings? Will the partnerships let their constituent local authorities make those savings for them?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
15 Jan 2008
Work Programme
I do not disagree with any of the suggested topics on the list. The question is whether we can fit in any of them in a piece of—if you will—quick and dirty work.I support David Stewart's view on what I call the son of the air route development fund. I still have high hopes tha...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Committee
09 Sep 2008
Finance and Sustainable Growth
I apologise for my late arrival, which was due to urgent constituency business.The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change, Stewart Stevenson, recently announced a timetable for delivery of the Waverley railway, which is the new name—actually, an old name—for...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
Is there a risk that the introduction of carbon accounting could lead to creative carbon accounting or some carbon emissions being placed off balance sheet—assuming of course that you think that those are bad practices? Do you wish to highlight any other potential methodologic...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
So accountancy may yet be an art.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
Have you observed—outwith Scotland—carbon accounting problems that should be avoided in Scotland?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
I would like to get some information—not necessarily today—about problems that are associated with, or the limitations of, carbon accounting that have been observed outwith Scotland and which our witnesses consider should be avoided.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
28 Oct 2008
Budget Process 2009-10
What would you recommend as the most effective carbon accounting methodology for the Scottish Government budgets?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
19 May 2009
Scottish Government <br />Transport Projects and Policy
You will know that the committee has argued for some time for a greater focus on active travel, especially in your department's spending priorities. I gather that you spoke at an active travel conference this week. What issues were raised, and what are you doing to prioritise ...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
Which is not cancelled.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
Given Mr Hoskins's knowledge of travel patterns in the west of Scotland, does he know whether many people who land at Glasgow airport take a bus to Paisley Gilmour Street, take a train from there to Glasgow Central high level, then go down to Glasgow Central low level and get ...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
My granny would have called it a long road for a short cut.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
Mr Darracott confirmed it. It will be in the Official Report.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
My question is for SPT, but other witnesses are free to join in. Can you provide an update on the Clyde fastlink project and set out preferred routes, estimated costs and likely completion dates?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
Can you give us more detail on the corridors on the north and south banks of the Clyde? Your answer was a wee bit vague. Will you drop in some place names? I know that some people here are from other parts of Scotland, but we will keep them right.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
Are you looking for an off-road, dedicated right of way, as far as possible?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
You mentioned that discussions have taken place. I think that you indicated that Transport Scotland has been involved, but have you had any discussions with the Scottish Government about fastlink? What support, financial or otherwise, has it offered?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
You may not be aware of the fact that last week, in answer to a written parliamentary question from me about whether he would offer financial support for what I called the "Fastlink project in Glasgow", Stewart Stevenson, the Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate ...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
If agencies in the west of Scotland are invited to bid for the joined-up route option—the gold-plated option—do they have stuff that they made earlier ready to submit?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
I was relying on the transport minister's written answer.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
06 Oct 2009
Budget Process 2010-11
I am prepared to consider a scoping paper, perhaps done by the clerk. There are all sorts of issues. They might not be constitutional, but the institutional relationships are complex when Network Rail is involved. I do not think that we could just say that we are going to star...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
I want to pursue further the issue of access to Glasgow airport in the context of GARL not happening. Ms McMillan, a few moments ago you referred to a 45-minute road journey into the city centre from your airport, and you mentioned congestion on the Kingston bridge. I infer th...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
Presumably, the number of passengers that GARL would have accounted for must now be factored into the additional capacity issues for parts of the M8.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
The Scottish Government told MSPs that the cost of reproviding the aviation fuel farm at quarter four of 2004 prices was estimated to be £3 million and that BAA had input to the calculation of that figure. What was BAA's involvement in the calculation?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
I see. So you do not recognise the £3 million figure at all.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
So you gave Transport Scotland purely technical information about how to relocate the fuel farm and what the specification would be, but you did not have any idea what the cost might be.
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
When the Glasgow Airport Rail Link Bill received royal assent, the cost of GARL-related work at Glasgow airport was estimated at £7.8 million. What involvement did BAA have in the calculation of that figure?
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
I am not advocating a return to ring fencing, but I infer from what Mr Murray said about the bus route development grant, which was a three-year revenue facility that was disaggregated to local authorities, that that money has been spent by local authorities on other things—no...
Charlie Gordon: Lab Committee
27 Oct 2009
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2010-11
It was disaggregated so, in the time-honoured phrase, it is in there somewhere.
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Chamber

Plenary, 12 Jan 2006

12 Jan 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Local Government Finance
To a greater or lesser extent, each of the Opposition parties in the debate claims that it wants enough money for local councils, partially or wholly funded by a new and more popular type of local taxation. I have news for them: there is never enough money and people never like paying taxes. Those are just two of the lessons that I have learned during years of trying to make sense of the byzantine complexity of local government finance.

For me, the learning curve has been steep and long. Alas, like some here I could mention, I cannot claim to have run away from the circus as a boy to join a firm of chartered accountants. On being elected to Strathclyde Regional Council in 1987, I found finance dry and boring. I found service issues such as transport and education to be sexier. When I became Strathclyde's transport convener in 1994, it was quite a shock to have to fight to retain my £0.5 billion budget in a tough, competitive, corporate budget round. The first lesson that I learned was that all services, sexy or otherwise, have to be paid for from a balanced budget.

However, I suspect that most politicians do not like to talk about finance. Many do not like to think about it and too many still do not understand it. I know that I did not feel confident in 1997 as deputy leader of Glasgow City Council, when my leader, Frank McAveety, asked me to take control of Glasgow's £2 billion budget. I sent for the director of finance—the legendary Jimmy Andrews, who gave 50 years of service to Glasgow. I pointed at a pile of budget papers on my desk that was too heavy to lift and I asked a technical question: "Jimmy, what's the answer to this dead hard sum?" "What answer would you like, councillor?" he replied. I felt a great weight lift from my shoulders. I was not alone. Budgeting was not a science, but an art. That was another lesson learned.

Years ago in the United States of America, a persistent bank robber was serving his last and longest jail term when he was visited by a young sociologist—I see that Des McNulty has left, which is a pity because he is a sociologist—for a research interview. The first question was, "Why do you rob banks?" The answer came, "Because that is where the money is."

Behind such obscure jargon as aggregate external finance and revenue support grant, it is all about money. That is a fact for me and every other member, for councils, for the Executive and for the Government. If we had more money, we could do more things with it. If the money is under the control of elected councillors, they are directly accountable to their electorate for the services they specify and the taxes that they levy.

John Swinney's motion calls for the national taxpayers of Scotland to give an extra £93.2 million to local councils on the condition that there is a real-terms freeze in council tax. Let us leave to one side the plain fact that to the man on the Sauchiehall Street omnibus, a council tax freeze means a zero increase, which the SNP's obfuscation would not deliver. Let us explore the SNP's condition or, as it is called in the jargon, ring fencing. Imposing that condition is wrong in practice because it removes the choices that having more money could bring to councils. It is also wrong in principle because it usurps the role of elected councillors. Perhaps John Swinney is a centraliser by inclination; it is a species that is represented in every part of the chamber after all. If so, I wonder what he would do if councillors used the cash for other things and ignored his condition. Would he make the cap fit, so to speak?

In 1996, the Tories' botched reorganisation of local government removed £400 million from Scotland and £50 million from Glasgow. In the three years after that, Glasgow's council tax rose by 50.5 per cent but, in the seven subsequent budgets, there were no above-inflation increases. Glasgow's gross tax increase in the past five years has been 10.9 per cent against a Scottish average of 23.5 per cent.

The SNP has a brass neck today because it has resisted every one of Glasgow's attempts to reform the local finance system.

Time is short in the debate, so this speech will have to be foreshortened. Obviously, the Burt committee has its work cut out. We need reform not abolition of the council tax. Also, if we reform the grant system, we had better remember that it is a zero-sum game and there will be winners and losers. Burt and his colleagues have much straining to do; let us hope that their straining produces more than a mouse.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S2M-3795, in the name of John Swinney, on local government finance.
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): SNP
It is always a pleasure to debate with the Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business on these great occasions. I assume t...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon): LD
Does John Swinney recall from what I said to that committee that his quotation is selective? I said that the initial indications from councils were that some...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Can I assume that that means that we have a guarantee from the deputy minister that council tax increases will be no higher than 2.5 per cent? That is the qu...
George Lyon: LD
On a point of information, Mr Swinney claims that that information is based on six case studies. In fact, it is based on six case studies and 15 returns from...
Mr Swinney: SNP
We have been asking for the report since Monday and it was apparently published on 28 December. We were told yesterday that it was going to be published in t...
George Lyon: LD
I have a quick point of clarification for Mr Swinney. Even if we accepted the £84.9 million funding gap figure that is quoted in the Finance Committee's repo...
Mr Swinney: SNP
According to the Finance Committee, the funding gap is £84.9 million. If the minister is going to question the figures in the committee's report, he should t...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): LD
If an independent body—not COSLA or the Scottish Executive but, say, Audit Scotland—found that councils that were threatening to cut front-line services had ...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Local authorities have to make prudent judgments on the level of their reserves and provision in the same way that the Scottish Executive has to make judgmen...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon): LD
I welcome the debate; indeed, given that councils currently spend about £17 billion a year on delivering many of our public services, the subject is very imp...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
Will the minister give way?
George Lyon: LD
That stands in stark contrast to the "dreadful" settlements that Mr Swinney referred to in his opening speech.
Mr Davidson: Con
Will the minister give way?
George Lyon: LD
Yes.
Mr Davidson: Con
I am sorry, Presiding Officer—either my voice is not carrying very far or the minister has not had his ears cleaned this morning.The minister has just referr...
George Lyon: LD
Such decisions are made by locally elected councillors. Our track record over that time shows a 55 per cent increase in direct support from the Executive, wh...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green): Green
I would be interested in the minister's comments on paragraph 77 of the Finance Committee report, which states:"The Committee also noted that the Aggregate E...
George Lyon: LD
I point out to Mr Ballard that, on top of AEF, we have the direct grants from Executive departments to local government. We also have prudential borrowing an...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP): SNP
Will the minister give way?
George Lyon: LD
I would like to make a little progress, if Mr Adam does not mind.In addition, councils have other resources at their disposal. This year, for example, the Ex...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): SSP
The minister has talked about the allocation of specific funds and about the funds that are available to local authorities. Will he tell us specifically how ...
George Lyon: LD
As we have said many times in answer to that question, that is a deal that was negotiated and agreed between the local government representative body, COSLA,...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Will the minister clarify two points? First, if further savings are going to be available for reinvestment by local authorities, why has the first tranche of...
George Lyon: LD
In answer to the first question, the original money that was deducted at source may well have been reinvested in council support, but we have not put in plac...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Ah!
George Lyon: LD
A third of the Executive budget goes to local government, so that money could have gone to local government.
Mr Swinney: SNP
It could not.
George Lyon: LD
It could so. Councils have taken advantage of the generous financial settlements in previous years to build substantial balances.
Mr Swinney: SNP
The minister must substantiate his claim that that money has been reinvested in local authorities. It is a central—