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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP Chamber
07 Sep 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Such is my dedication to the Justice 2 Committee and to the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill that, while other members have been sunning themselves this summer, I have been investigating Queen's Counsel and solicitors up close in the Court of Session for the past...
Colin Fox: SSP Chamber
07 Sep 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am grateful for that intervention—it was almost longer than my speech—but it is a red herring. The Scottish legal complaints commission will contain lawyers. Legal briefs will be involved. Conduct complaints could be heard by a committee with a five-to-four majority, so ther...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP Chamber
14 Dec 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill
As other members have said, there were many issues for the Justice 2 Committee to consider in scrutinising this 80-page bill, which was probably dwarfed by the hundreds of submissions from throughout the country that we had to read.In the three minutes that I have, I will addr...
Colin Fox: SSP Chamber
20 Apr 2006
Civil Justice Reform
Like other members, I am delighted to hear that. I look forward to that promise being kept. As far as civil justice is concerned, there is a widespread belief among people who have never used the law or needed access to it that everyone is equal under the law. That is a noble ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am not suggesting that there should be no legal representation, but you will understand my concern that the public might look at the make-up of the commission and think that four lawyers against five lay people is a high proportion of lawyers for a body that is dealing with ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Have you reflected on the suggestion in the evidence that we have gathered that some law firms might withdraw from some parts of legal practice for fear of the £20,000 penalty? Have you reflected on the consequences of that for legal practice in Scotland and access to justice?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
09 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
On the membership of the proposed Scottish legal complaints commission, the Scotland Against Crooked Lawyers submission makes the interesting suggestion that no lawyers should sit on the commission, although it accepts that it might be necessary to appoint a lawyer to provide ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
On the funding of the legal complaints commission, the Scottish Consumer Council's written submission says that you favour the polluter-pays principle. However, we have heard two views in that regard. Some people say that it is unfair to ask everyone to pay, regardless of the ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I will press you on that by asking whether any consideration was given to having different proportions in the nine-member panel. You said that the issues of consumer confidence and of the independence of the body that is being established were at the back of your mind. Was con...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The distinction has been made in line with the way in which the Law Society currently deals with such matters, but do you appreciate John Swinney's point that the public wants a new system that is, first, independent of that and, secondly, not as toothless as the Scottish lega...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
A number of people, including the Scottish legal services ombudsman, have pointed out that complaints can often straddle both categories. In light of that, can the bill's provisions stipulate that service complaints should be dealt with in one way and conduct complaints in ano...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Even if very little is done, how do you suggest the work should be funded? The Law Society suggested that, according to its figures, £400,000 would be saved by winding up the office of the Scottish legal services ombudsman.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It certainly clarifies things. It seems to me that you are drawing a distinction. You have issues about the definition and about adequate financial recompense. However, presumably if the proposed Scottish legal complaints commission adjudicated that £20,000 was an appropriate ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
09 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
When the Law Society and the Faculty of Advocates were here last week, they said that one of their big concerns about the bill related to the need for the commission to be independent of Government. They think that a legal profession that is independent of the state should be ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I will put the same basic question, but from a slightly different angle, to the Scottish Legal Aid Board. You wrote in your submission of your anxiety that the levy would be unfair to in-house lawyers who work for SLAB. Will you explain?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good afternoon, gentlemen. You will have heard today and previously that we are concerned to ensure that the Scottish legal complaints commission enjoys the confidence of the public and is seen to be independent and transparent. The proposal in the bill is for a nine-member co...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It has been suggested that there must be sufficient lawyers on the commission to give legal advice and opinion and to steer members through the complaint. By and large, you are quite happy with the proposal.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The committee has heard a lot of evidence about the need for the public to have confidence in the system for handling complaints. I assure you that that is a big part of our deliberations. The bill might well be changed as a result of the evidence that we are gathering. I want...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do you not think that some legal input to the process would be beneficial? A practising lawyer could say, "This is why that lawyer did it that way, rather than the other."
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Would you rather the ratio of non-lawyers to lawyers was 9:0, with a legal adviser, as Mr Clark suggested?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I get to ask the questions. Interruption. I am asking a serious question. The new legal complaints commission, which I am sure we all want to succeed, would be funded by a general levy payable by all lawyers and a complaints levy of about £300, which would be payable by a lawy...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
23 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do you think that the Scottish legal complaints commission should be publicly funded?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
30 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I turn to the bill's provisions on mediation, which you can imagine is a skill that has been in great demand in certain quarters over the past weekend. I draw your attention to the evidence from the Scottish Legal Action Group. SCOLAG suggested that there might be conflict bet...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
07 Nov 2006
Petition
According to paragraph 6 of the paper, the Executive may consider "any ‘significant call' for legislative change"on the issue of limited companies being ineligible for legal aid. The Executive seems to have an open mind.The second part of the petition—in my opinion it has only...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP Chamber
14 Dec 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Mr Swinney raises an important issue that is at the centre of the bill. The Justice 2 Committee spent a lot of its time considering conduct complaints, and its report highlighted the fact that the Executive's initial consultation showed that the public's overwhelming preferenc...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Jan 2005
Fire (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 35 is a response to questions that I put to the deputy minister in committee and in the stage 1 debate. Although I welcome the assurances that the minister gave on both occasions, the Executive has failed, in my view, to provide a cast-iron assurance that it has no i...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I have a follow-up question. It strikes me that the bill's distinction between service complaints and conduct complaints is taken straight out of the Law Society's current complaints handling system. Is it fair to say that?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I know that the committee is anxious to explore other areas, but I want to press the witnesses on a technical point. Given that there will be a clear procedure for dealing with service complaints, which will be the commission's responsibility, and another clear procedure for d...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
What happens if there is no agreement? Will the commission have the final say?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I hate to be pedantic, but what about when a complaint raises matters that relate to service and to conduct? Who will make the decision? Will the commission decide that, on balance, the complaint is more to do with service than with conduct, or the reverse? What about occasion...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I would like to explore the issue of appeals more widely. Do you agree that the public might view it as pretty inconsistent that the bill affords practitioners a right of appeal but does not afford complainants a right of appeal?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is it not the case that a practitioner who is complained against will have the right to appeal to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal on the outcome of a judgment, but that the complainant who begins the proceedings will not have the right to appeal the ruling if they ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Okay, so in conduct cases the practitioner has the right of appeal but the complainant does not. Do you see what I am getting at? We are supposed to be coming up with an independent, open, transparent and fair system, but the public will not understand why a solicitor can appe...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I would be happy to, but first I will deal with the complaints levy. I am sure that the witnesses have picked up the fact that the committee is curious—if I can use that euphemism—about the idea that lawyers should be charged when a complaint is made, which is perhaps the only...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I will move on to compensation. Why is the ultimate penalty that will be at the commission's disposal for compensation for a service complaint—£20,000—four times higher than that for a conduct complaint, which is £5,000?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The commission will be able to make disposals such as ordering solicitors to charge no fees. On the current scale of disposals—can I call them punishments?—for service or conduct complaints that are upheld, what is the ratio of compensation disposals?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
25 Apr 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Yes.
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Like the panel, I do not want to get into whether the public have a low or high degree of confidence in the Law Society. I am sure that we all want to ensure that they have the utmost confidence in the Law Society. The independence of the Law Society has been highlighted. What...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We will come to the separation of those two matters in due course. Is not there a danger that the Law Society is overplaying its hand by saying that its independence is being called into question when we are talking about a complaints procedure? We are talking about an indepen...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Will you give the committee a clear idea of what a service complaint is and how it differs from a conduct complaint?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do the public understand that distinction? If someone made a complaint to the Law Society of Scotland, would they understand the categories under which it might be dealt with?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Who makes the decision whether a complaint is handled as a service complaint or as a conduct complaint?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is it fair to say that, no matter what category complaints fall into, having a single mechanism might make things far simpler and ensure that problems never arose?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Last week, the committee heard evidence from the bill team. We pressed them on the apparent inconsistency in the bill that solicitors will have the right to appeal against the commission's decisions, but the general public will not. Perhaps you can shed light on the current ci...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I want to ensure that I understand the matter clearly. With service complaints, the general public have no right to appeal decisions, but the solicitor has that right.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am concentrating on the present. With conduct complaints, the Law Society of Scotland, in one guise or another, steps into the shoes of the member of the public and carries out the prosecution. The solicitor has the right to appeal, but the member of the public does not have...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am grateful to you for pointing that out. A level playing field is to be welcomed.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I have two brief points. I will focus on the current £5,000 compensation level and leave aside the £20,000 completely. One of the remedies that are available to the Law Society in disposing of a complaint is to order the solicitor to charge the client no fee. You have already ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is it fair to say that there have been occasions where the total has exceeded the current £5,000 limit?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Right. That is clearly beyond the penalty proposed in the bill.Could you give us an idea of where the majority of disposals fall? I take it that compensation seldom settles at the £3,200 level. At what level are the majority of disposals settled?
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Just to clarify, my maths shows that half of the complaints resulted in a disposal along the lines of ordering a solicitor to do extra work, and so on.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you. I am grateful.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I welcome your introductory remarks and your acceptance that the public often feel that lawyers protect one another in the complaints system. Such fears, anxieties, perceptions or perspectives—call them what we will—are part of the committee's deliberations.I want to focus on ...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Yes.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Yes.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is interesting that you say that the faculty does not make a distinction between service complaints and conduct complaints.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is valuable, as is your point that if the bill is enacted, making that distinction will remain difficult—you gave the example of delays in court. Would the faculty not oppose putting all complaints together if the profession continued to examine complaints? You are agains...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That brings us back to the beginning. What you describe is what you do at the moment, but that involves a system in which the public have little confidence.
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My final point is designed to obtain some free advice from a QC. You think that QCs cannot work out the distinction in the bill between conduct complaints and service complaints, so whoever takes on the duty of establishing that in due course will have a hell of a problem on t...
Colin Fox: SSP Committee
02 May 2006
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Great. Smashing.
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Chamber

Plenary, 07 Sep 2006

07 Sep 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Such is my dedication to the Justice 2 Committee and to the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill that, while other members have been sunning themselves this summer, I have been investigating Queen's Counsel and solicitors up close in the Court of Session for the past three months.

The Executive is right to have introduced the bill in response to the overwhelming demand from the public for a legal complaints system in which they can have faith. As everybody knows, the current self-regulatory procedure has been subject to widespread criticism. Many people see it as lacking in transparency and accountability. As things stand, the Law Society of Scotland and the Faculty of Advocates deal with the complaints made against 11,000 solicitors and 300 advocates by investigating matters themselves. As a response to the widespread criticism, the Executive carried out a consultation. The public's preferred option—to have a wholly independent legal complaints commissioner dealing with all complaints—was not one of the options, unfortunately. That consultation was thus inherently compromised, and so is the bill, I fear.

As many members have already said, the self-regulatory system is seen as lawyers protecting lawyers. It does not enjoy the necessary confidence of the Scottish Consumer Council, for example. In its evidence on the system, the council supported the aim

"to put the users of legal services at the heart of regulatory arrangements".

Although complainants who are unhappy with decisions that have been arrived at can seek redress by approaching the Scottish legal services ombudsman, that route is seen as both cumbersome and toothless. Mr Swinney referred to the evidence of Linda Costelloe Baker, the outgoing ombudsman. Her remarks reveal frustration with the bill's inability to take fully on board the public's criticisms. She said that the remit of the Scottish legal complaints commission will be limited to addressing complaints of poor service, that the rights of advocates and solicitors to self-regulation will continue where they should be scrapped, and that the Scottish legal complaints commission should be the regulator of adequate practice in the profession. The bill suggests that we move from self-regulation to partial co-regulation, replacing the legal services ombudsman with a Scottish legal complaints commission while, by and large, leaving lawyers to continue to regulate themselves.

Many members have used the debate to highlight the problems with the distinction between conduct and service complaints. In many ways, that goes to the heart of the bill. The suggestion is that complainants will approach the Scottish legal complaints commission for consideration of their case, and it will decide whether the case is about the service that legal practitioners have provided or about their conduct as legal advisers. Service complaints—for example, where a solicitor has not sent a letter or replied to a call timeously, or has failed to provide basic administration to an acceptable standard—will be considered by the commission, via a nine-person committee with a majority of non-lawyers. On the other hand, conduct complaints, regarding negligence or unprofessional representation, will continue to be the preserve of the Law Society or of the relations committee of the Faculty of Advocates. Although the verdict will be subject to scrutiny by the legal complaints commission, such complaints will essentially remain in house.

The bill's division between service and conduct complaints is a replica of the system that the Law Society currently operates. The bill has come under a great deal of scrutiny regarding that aspect. There have been many critics of how we are handling the distinction. The Faculty of Advocates selflessly concluded that it was better to leave it all to it. Many members have rightly highlighted the many difficulties with the proposed separation. We fear that that could lead to confusing and difficult practical arrangements. That is why I dissented on that part of the Justice 2 Committee's report.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-4713, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, that the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Legal Pr...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry): Lab
We want a Scottish justice system that is fit for the 21st century. It must meet the changing needs of families and communities in today's Scotland. We want ...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
Will the minister take an intervention on that point?
Hugh Henry: Lab
I will give way after I finish the next section of my speech, which is on the same issue.We believe that our proposals comply with the European convention on...
Phil Gallie: Con
The question that I intended to ask about the ECHR has been answered, but other ECHR aspects arise, particularly in relation to the penalties that will be im...
Hugh Henry: Lab
That is a new ECHR argument that has not been raised with me before, but we are convinced that the bill is ECHR compliant. Ministers have satisfied themselve...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): SNP
Will the minister give way?
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
Will the minister take an intervention?
Hugh Henry: Lab
I give way to Mike Rumbles.
Mike Rumbles: LD
I am aware that the maximum compensation level rose from £1,000 to £5,000 recently. Why did the minister choose to increase the level to £20,000? I have been...
Hugh Henry: Lab
The £5,000 figure that I mentioned in my latter point is the proposed new maximum compensation for conduct complaints. The £5,000 that I mentioned earlier, w...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Will the minister give way?
Hugh Henry: Lab
I will just make this final point before giving way to Mr Swinney.The funding for complaint handling will continue to be provided by the legal profession but...
Mr Swinney: SNP
On the handling of conduct complaints, the minister said that the commission will have a power of oversight in relation to conduct complaints that have been ...
Hugh Henry: Lab
That is a fairly substantial question, but I do not have time to go into the details to do it justice. I will write to Mr Swinney on that issue and copy the ...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
As the minister knows, the public defender's role in the criminal legal aid system has been very successful in Inverness. Does he recall the correspondence t...
Hugh Henry: Lab
Maureen Macmillan has pre-empted the next point in my speech. I recognise the concerns that she, along with Jim Wallace and others, have raised. On a number ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh): Con
Minister, I can give you another couple of minutes.
Hugh Henry: Lab
A great deal of work has also been done to improve publicly funded advice in Scotland. A number of changes have been made to the legal aid system to reflect ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Con
A number of members who wish to speak in the debate, according to my script, and who are present in the chamber have not pressed their request-to-speak butto...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): SNP
I concur with a great deal of what the minister has said. It is important to put on record at the outset that Scotland has been well served by its legal syst...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con): Con
I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives welcome and support the general principles of the bill: namely to improve the handling of complaints against legal ...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): LD
The relationship between an individual and his or her solicitor is very important. For many people, it will be a straightforward matter, but for other client...
Mr Swinney: SNP
On the divide between service and conduct complaints, will Mr Purvis say a bit more about what he would expect to be in the amendments to provide the necessa...
Jeremy Purvis: LD
I am happy to do so. In correspondence with the committee, the minister has indicated that there will be a duty on the complaints bodies—the commission and t...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Will Mr Purvis give way on that point?
Jeremy Purvis: LD
I am anxious that I may be over time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Con
You are over time. I should have called one minute, one minute ago.
Jeremy Purvis: LD
I am grateful for that and for the fact that I cannot give way to Mr Aitken. On the independence of the profession, we are rightly proud, as Mr MacAskill sai...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
I thank the clerking team for the enormous amount of work it got through, particularly in the early stages, when we received about 600 submissions in respons...