Committee
Meeting of the Commission 27 October 2011
27 Oct 2011 · S4 · Scottish Commission for Public Audit
Item of business
Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2012-13
When you were here previously you said that one of the first things that happen when efficiencies are required is the knee-jerk reaction of restructuring and getting rid of staff. I note from your introductory remarks that you are thinking seriously about doing that.You also said that you have considered Audit Scotland’s efficiency for a number of years. However, page 15 of your operating costs statement shows that most of your budget lines, with the exception of a pension adjustment in 2010-11, have increased. Can you explain that?My third question is similar to what Hugh Henry asked about and is on the staff vacancy factor, which you intend to reduce from 4 per cent to 2 per cent and which will increase your budget by £155,000. I am trying to match that figure to the figure on page 7 on staffing costs. It is probably clear, but I cannot understand it. You state:“The cost savings generated from these reductions together with the effect of grade mix changes from business restructuring total £540k. These savings are partly offset by increased costs arising from pay growth, £245k and the effects of reducing our vacancy factor, £155k.”Does reducing your staff vacancy factor give a saving of £155,000, or has that been used to balance another bit of the budget?
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 2 is consideration of Audit Scotland’s detailed budget proposal for the financial year 2012-13. The commission will report to the Parliament on t...
Mr Robert Black (Auditor General for Scotland)
I start with an apology for being a couple of minutes late, convener. We have been in the building for some time, but on the other side of the security scree...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. I will begin our questions with one about the ambitious and obviously welcome savings targets that have been presented. Mr Black said that retenti...
Mr Black
I can give an absolute assurance on that, and I will offer a comment or two, if I may. We did not start the efficiency programme in the near past; we have ta...
The Convener
SNP
The second-bottom paragraph on page 3 of the budget proposal states:“we have reduced the time spent in councils on corporate scrutiny work by 39%”.That is qu...
Mr Black
All the scrutiny bodies have been working on that in partnership on behalf of the Accounts Commission, and Audit Scotland co-ordinates the whole process. All...
Russell Frith (Audit Scotland)
The 39 per cent relates to the time that was spent with the councils. It should not necessarily be taken that there has been a 39 per cent reduction in the t...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Lab
I want to follow on from the convener’s line of questioning and to ask for clarification. On page 4 of the budget proposal, under the heading “Restructuring ...
Diane McGiffen (Audit Scotland)
We have been looking at the mix of skills and grades in the organisation for some time. As we have invested in new technology, introduced new audit practices...
Hugh Henry
Lab
On the 23 staff, what mix of posts is involved?
Diane McGiffen
The posts will cover different grades across the organisation.
Hugh Henry
Lab
Can you give us details? You could send them at a later date.
Diane McGiffen
I can let you know our plans to restructure the business. We have not at this stage earmarked post X or post Y for the reductions. We are still reshaping the...
Hugh Henry
Lab
Does that not beg a question? If you know that you want to shed 23 posts but you do not know which ones, how can you guarantee that the work will be done? Yo...
Diane McGiffen
It is not that we do not know what our targets are, but we are not yet at a point where we have said, “These particular posts are the ones that we will delet...
Mr Black
To build on what Diane McGiffen said, what this means in reality is that we are running a recruitment freeze for any posts that become vacant and we do not k...
Hugh Henry
Lab
The situation does pose some questions. If you do not know which posts will be deleted and if people are entitled to make up their own minds, as you said, ho...
Mr Black
We do not know 100 per cent, but we have a pretty good idea.
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
When you were here previously you said that one of the first things that happen when efficiencies are required is the knee-jerk reaction of restructuring and...
Mr Black
Those are points of some detail, so I ask Diane McGiffen to go through them.
Diane McGiffen
I will take the people costs element first; if what I say does not answer your question, please let me know and we will explore it further. The staff numbers...
John Pentland
Lab
I have heard the same comments from staff back at the local authority when they do that kind of analysis. It is obviously something that I will have to sit d...
Mr Black
I will build on that with regard to some of the numbers that you mentioned earlier. The savings from five posts is £540,000. We have had to put in an element...
John Pentland
Lab
Efficiency has not just happened: you have been working on it for a number of years. However, most of the budget lines in your budget proposal have been incr...
Mr Black
Russell Frith is a master of the detailed budget lines, so perhaps he can take us through one or two of the elements.
Russell Frith
Some of the budget lines have been increasing, but the actuals have not been going up by as much. For example, the total administrative cost line on page 15 ...
John Pentland
Lab
The biggest efficiency—I do not know whether it is through effort—is the pension adjustment.
Mr Black
Do you have a question about the pension adjustment?
John Pentland
Lab
No, I was just summing up my own question.
Russell Frith
We have never regarded the pension adjustment as an efficiency. It was a one-off reduction in costs in 2010-11 that came about only as a result of a change i...