Committee
Justice Committee 12 November 2013
12 Nov 2013 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of the Faculty of Advocates.I have sympathy with Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 85. On the point about legal aid, I rather concur with Elaine Murray. It does not seem appropriate for those provisions to be in the bill. However, we need to make some progress in dealing with the widespread attitude that people hold. People look at the Crown as representing the public interest and they ask, “Who is representing my interest? Who is my lawyer?” It is precisely in applications such as those that we are discussing that such questions arise.There is a real issue. It was flagged up when Murdo Macleod of the Faculty of Advocates gave evidence, although we did not explore it in detail. The proposal would break substantial new ground. I am not sure what discussions the Government has had with the Faculty of Advocates, as opposed to Rape Crisis Scotland, since stage 1. I think that the onus is on the Faculty of Advocates to convey its thoughts to the Government. That was the impression that I got from the evidence session in May.Although I have reservations about amendment 85, the issue will not go away. I will oppose Margaret Mitchell’s amendments today, but the issue needs wider attention than we have given it so far.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 3 is stage 2 of the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill. As I said before the meeting—and will repeat for the benefit of the Cabinet Secretary for Jus...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 74, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is grouped with amendments 75, 76, 20, 22, 23, 26, 39, 40, 41, 49, 48, 50 and 51.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 74 is in line with the committee’s stage 1 report recommendation that a definition of “victim” should be provided in the text of the bill. It appea...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Amendments 74 to 76, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, would insert an overarching definition of “victim” in the bill and make minor consequential amendments...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I understand that Children 1st supports Margaret Mitchell’s amendments because children might in some cases—such as those involving domestic abuse—be treated...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I think that I agree with Elaine Murray. The nature of crime and victims has changed; people can be the victim of internet crime when that could not have bee...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The cabinet secretary’s amendments are to be welcomed but I do not think that they necessarily exclude putting a definition of “victim” into the bill. Howeve...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 55, in the name of Elaine Murray, is grouped with amendments 56 and 57. I call Elaine Murray to move amendment 55 and speak to the other amendments...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I will start by moving amendment 55 because I will have forgotten to do it by the time I get to the end of what I am going to say.
The Convener
SNP
I nearly forgot to remind you to move it, but we will get to that shortly. We need to get our sleeves rolled up. Off you go.
Elaine Murray
Lab
Amendment 55 would ensure that when a victim or a witness is a child, the information that is provided by the persons listed in section 1(2) is in a form tha...
The Convener
SNP
So you are probing.09:45
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I appreciate the intent of the amendments and what Elaine Murray and others are trying to achieve.Section 1 sets out a number of general principles that are ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
In my introductory remarks, I said that I was not convinced that section 1 was the best section in which to put the requirement proposed in amendments 55 to ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 12, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 58, 13 to 19, 59, 60 and 21.
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Amendments 12 to 19 and 21 all relate to the proposed duty on criminal justice agencies under section 2 to set out clear standards of service for victims and...
Elaine Murray
Lab
As the cabinet secretary said, the purpose of amendment 58 is to require that “setting and publishing standards” in respect to victims and witnesses who are ...
The Convener
SNP
I think that one of your pleas fell on deaf ears, but we will find out.
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
In the evidence that we received at stage 1 from witnesses and victims who were involved in court procedures, I was certainly impressed—I am sure that others...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We accept that we are on a journey. I put on record my gratitude to former Lord Advocate Elish Angiolini, who kicked off the process, and to the current Lord...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 58, in the name of Elaine Murray, has already been debated with amendment 12.
Elaine Murray
Lab
I will not move amendment 58 at stage 2, because I want to reflect on whether there is a more appropriate part of the bill in which to introduce provisions o...
The Convener
SNP
You have put down a marker.Amendment 58 not moved.Amendments 13 to 19 moved—Kenny MacAskill—and agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 59, in the name of Elaine Murray, has already been debated with amendment 12.
Elaine Murray
Lab
I will move amendment 59, because I believe that, as it requires consultation with victims and witnesses, it is preferable to amendment 21, although I know t...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 59 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForMcInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)Pentland...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 59 disagreed to.Amendments 60, 75 and 76 not moved.Amendment 20 moved—Kenny MacAskil...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 77, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is in a group on its own.10:00
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Article 11 of the European Union victims directive requires that victims of crime should be able to request a review of a decision not to prosecute, and that...