Chamber
Plenary, 08 Nov 2006
08 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Transition from School to Work
Although I welcome the debate, I must express my concern about the way in which we tackle the problem. We build piecemeal projects that are never extended and which lack monitoring and review. The funds that we put in are akin to the money that was put into schools for social inclusion when I was teaching.
When I came to Parliament, we seemed at first to be repeating the debates over and over again without getting to the nub of the problem. The nub of the problem, as far as I am concerned, is that we need a strategy that takes our young people, as Alex Neil said, from pre-school provision through to their final years in secondary schools and on to the transition to further and higher education, work or training. We need to consider a number of things if we are to do that properly.
First, I point out that education is not solely about employability; it is also about the rounded young person of the future. That said, the transition from school to work is an important stage in a young person's life and it should be supported by schools, colleges, employers and the wider community. As well as employability, education is about the opportunities that young people have. If they do not receive a correct and decent education, they will not be able to move on and make the transition when they reach the age of 16. That is where the problem lies.
We need to ask why young people are failing in the system. The Education Committee carried out an inquiry into pupil motivation and we have talked about the issues for three and a half years, but we have still not hit the nail on the head. If we are to ensure that all our young people get equal opportunities in education, we must do a number of things. Early intervention is one of the keys, and we need good support for learning in schools, with one-to-one support, if necessary, for literacy and numeracy. We need to reduce class sizes to no more than 20 and to no more than 15 for practical classes. Young people need a running commentary—they need someone to engage with them. Some of them come from homes where there is a lot of deprivation and they do not get opportunities, so it is down to schools to provide opportunities.
We also need to think about young people's learning styles. Young people are not all made to sit in a classroom for five hours a day. We need to train our teachers to be aware of young people's different learning styles so that we can accommodate their differences. I prefer to say that young people have learning differences rather than learning difficulties, and those differences can be overcome if we challenge young people in the correct manner and engage with them in the way that they require. That means thinking about their learning styles.
We need to offer young people the opportunity to achieve. A sense of achievement is motivation in itself because it builds self-esteem and confidence, but many of the young people we are talking about have low confidence and no self-esteem. We need to give them access in and out of school to sport, leisure activities, drama, the arts, music and so on. As people who can afford to provide those things for our children, we know that they make all the difference in their lives. It is important that our communities are involved so that we can give young people opportunities in and out of school. It is not good enough for us to rely on parents' having the money to pay for those things. Unfortunately, many young people from deprived areas do not have access and do not have the money, and some do not have the bus fare to go to the leisure centre even if they have a free pass to get in there. We have to equalise things and ensure that young people get opportunities that will allow them to thrive in our communities.
As I keep saying, I am bitterly disappointed that the integrated community school projects seemed to fizzle out instead of building on what was started and making it better, strengthening it and ensuring that communities came into education via integrated community schools from pre-school all the way through to secondary school. That was a key project that we could have developed more and with which we could have made a huge difference.
We need to allow children and young people access to the services that will support them when there are difficulties in their families. All too often, there are waiting lists for child and family mental health teams and for psychologists and other psychological services in education. Limited counselling services are available in our schools, but we need to wrap all the care around our young people—that is what this is all about. It is not good enough to set up little projects here and there and to hope that they will solve this massive problem. That will not work.
The Executive is giving itself a pat on the back today, but it has no right to do that. The number of 16 to 19-year-olds not in employment, education or training in Scotland is about 35,000—13.5 per cent of all 16 to 19-year-olds. That is a disgrace. I have looked at the figures for Ayrshire. In East Ayrshire, the figure is 16.6 per cent, which is higher than average. In North Ayrshire, it is higher than average at 18.6 per cent, and in South Ayrshire, it is higher than average at 18.5 per cent. In the Glasgow City Council area, the figure is 23 per cent. Many of those young people would welcome access to an apprenticeship, but if they live in North Ayrshire, for example, their chances are almost zero.
About a year ago I met people who run a skills centre and we talked about the number of young people who had applied for apprenticeships. Of the hundreds of young people who were interested, applications came in for more than 80. Only four were taken on, because only four employers were found who could take them on. What is the minister going to do to give those young people access to decent training courses? Many of them are very fit to go into apprenticeships and would be motivated at school if they thought that there was something at the end it.
It is extremely important that those young people get opportunities. Some of them are in second and third-generation unemployment. We need to do something about that and we need to ensure that they know that there are opportunities for their future and that they can move on. We need to encourage employers to ensure that they have the means through which to bring on young people. What are we doing to encourage small businesses, for example, to take on apprentices?
I will finish there. I just hope that the minister will answer some of my points.
I move amendment S2M-5098.2, to leave out from "welcomes" to end and insert:
"is concerned about the numbers of young people not in education, employment or training; recognises that there is a need to address the reasons why schools are failing these young people and to take immediate action to address these problems by reducing class sizes, offering a broader curriculum and engaging more with young people, their parents and their communities, and calls on the Scottish Executive to offer fully supported and resourced modern apprenticeships based on the needs of young people and communities."
When I came to Parliament, we seemed at first to be repeating the debates over and over again without getting to the nub of the problem. The nub of the problem, as far as I am concerned, is that we need a strategy that takes our young people, as Alex Neil said, from pre-school provision through to their final years in secondary schools and on to the transition to further and higher education, work or training. We need to consider a number of things if we are to do that properly.
First, I point out that education is not solely about employability; it is also about the rounded young person of the future. That said, the transition from school to work is an important stage in a young person's life and it should be supported by schools, colleges, employers and the wider community. As well as employability, education is about the opportunities that young people have. If they do not receive a correct and decent education, they will not be able to move on and make the transition when they reach the age of 16. That is where the problem lies.
We need to ask why young people are failing in the system. The Education Committee carried out an inquiry into pupil motivation and we have talked about the issues for three and a half years, but we have still not hit the nail on the head. If we are to ensure that all our young people get equal opportunities in education, we must do a number of things. Early intervention is one of the keys, and we need good support for learning in schools, with one-to-one support, if necessary, for literacy and numeracy. We need to reduce class sizes to no more than 20 and to no more than 15 for practical classes. Young people need a running commentary—they need someone to engage with them. Some of them come from homes where there is a lot of deprivation and they do not get opportunities, so it is down to schools to provide opportunities.
We also need to think about young people's learning styles. Young people are not all made to sit in a classroom for five hours a day. We need to train our teachers to be aware of young people's different learning styles so that we can accommodate their differences. I prefer to say that young people have learning differences rather than learning difficulties, and those differences can be overcome if we challenge young people in the correct manner and engage with them in the way that they require. That means thinking about their learning styles.
We need to offer young people the opportunity to achieve. A sense of achievement is motivation in itself because it builds self-esteem and confidence, but many of the young people we are talking about have low confidence and no self-esteem. We need to give them access in and out of school to sport, leisure activities, drama, the arts, music and so on. As people who can afford to provide those things for our children, we know that they make all the difference in their lives. It is important that our communities are involved so that we can give young people opportunities in and out of school. It is not good enough for us to rely on parents' having the money to pay for those things. Unfortunately, many young people from deprived areas do not have access and do not have the money, and some do not have the bus fare to go to the leisure centre even if they have a free pass to get in there. We have to equalise things and ensure that young people get opportunities that will allow them to thrive in our communities.
As I keep saying, I am bitterly disappointed that the integrated community school projects seemed to fizzle out instead of building on what was started and making it better, strengthening it and ensuring that communities came into education via integrated community schools from pre-school all the way through to secondary school. That was a key project that we could have developed more and with which we could have made a huge difference.
We need to allow children and young people access to the services that will support them when there are difficulties in their families. All too often, there are waiting lists for child and family mental health teams and for psychologists and other psychological services in education. Limited counselling services are available in our schools, but we need to wrap all the care around our young people—that is what this is all about. It is not good enough to set up little projects here and there and to hope that they will solve this massive problem. That will not work.
The Executive is giving itself a pat on the back today, but it has no right to do that. The number of 16 to 19-year-olds not in employment, education or training in Scotland is about 35,000—13.5 per cent of all 16 to 19-year-olds. That is a disgrace. I have looked at the figures for Ayrshire. In East Ayrshire, the figure is 16.6 per cent, which is higher than average. In North Ayrshire, it is higher than average at 18.6 per cent, and in South Ayrshire, it is higher than average at 18.5 per cent. In the Glasgow City Council area, the figure is 23 per cent. Many of those young people would welcome access to an apprenticeship, but if they live in North Ayrshire, for example, their chances are almost zero.
About a year ago I met people who run a skills centre and we talked about the number of young people who had applied for apprenticeships. Of the hundreds of young people who were interested, applications came in for more than 80. Only four were taken on, because only four employers were found who could take them on. What is the minister going to do to give those young people access to decent training courses? Many of them are very fit to go into apprenticeships and would be motivated at school if they thought that there was something at the end it.
It is extremely important that those young people get opportunities. Some of them are in second and third-generation unemployment. We need to do something about that and we need to ensure that they know that there are opportunities for their future and that they can move on. We need to encourage employers to ensure that they have the means through which to bring on young people. What are we doing to encourage small businesses, for example, to take on apprentices?
I will finish there. I just hope that the minister will answer some of my points.
I move amendment S2M-5098.2, to leave out from "welcomes" to end and insert:
"is concerned about the numbers of young people not in education, employment or training; recognises that there is a need to address the reasons why schools are failing these young people and to take immediate action to address these problems by reducing class sizes, offering a broader curriculum and engaging more with young people, their parents and their communities, and calls on the Scottish Executive to offer fully supported and resourced modern apprenticeships based on the needs of young people and communities."
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5098, in the name of Nicol Stephen, on supporting positive transitions from school to work.
The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen):
LD
Today's debate is on the important issue of moving young people from school into further education, employment or training.The transition works well for the ...
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West) (Ind):
Ind
A vocational element in education is important and every effort must be made to improve job and training opportunities for young people. However, does the mi...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I agree strongly with that point. As well as the basic academic skills, there must be an emphasis in our schools on physical activity and sport, drama and mu...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Given what the Deputy First Minister has said about schools, can he say whether he supports the First Minister's proposals for science academies?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
As I understand the situation, the proposals were made not by the First Minister but by the leader of the Labour Party. I look forward to seeing more of the ...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I want to take the minister back a couple of paragraphs in his speech, to the point when he referred to local authorities having the lead role. If local auth...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I could refer the member forward a few paragraphs in my speech, to the point when I will refer to leadership. It is important that the Executive, the private...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I appreciate the comments that the minister has made so far, but does he accept that if education is so important in tackling the problem, the absence of the...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I strongly disagree with that. It is correct that the lead minister on this issue is the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning. The Minister for Educ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Will the minister give way?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I am sorry, but I cannot because I am running out of time.The strategy commits us to setting national and local targets for tackling the problem by 2008. We ...
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
There is probably a lot of cross-party consensus on the issue, both on the importance of dealing with the problem and on the need to tackle it in a multifari...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
So why does the Scottish National Party propose to exacerbate the situation by spending £1.7 billion on writing off student debt?
Alex Neil:
SNP
Obviously, arithmetic was not Allan Wilson's best subject when he left school. The reason for having policies such as ours is to tackle another issue that hi...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Alex Neil on what must be a record: he spoke for 10 minutes and 46 seconds but did not mention independence once. I hope that he will keep tha...
Jim Mather:
SNP
Does Murdo Fraser concede that it is possible that the skills gap is a function of people being attracted out of Scotland by better terms and conditions else...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
That is an interesting question. We still have a problem in that many high-level graduates are leaving Scotland to seek employment elsewhere; for example, Mr...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Will Murdo Fraser give way?
Murdo Fraser:
Con
If Fiona Hyslop will forgive me, I will not give way at this point, as I need to make progress.Recently, there has been a large influx of workers from easter...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol):
Sol
Although I welcome the debate, I must express my concern about the way in which we tackle the problem. We build piecemeal projects that are never extended an...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
In time for reflection today, the Rev Malcolm Rooney spoke about arch enemies united, and I suspect that, regardless of our views on the solution, this subje...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Christine May:
Lab
I am in my last minute, so I must continue.Murdo Fraser talked about skills academies and science academies. At Friday's business in the Parliament conferenc...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate and I applaud the work that has been done by the Smith group, which has been ably led by Sir Tom Hunter ...
Christine May:
Lab
Does Jim Mather agree that because the Executive is not a company it should not therefore be expected to behave as a company? However, if we extend his analo...
Jim Mather:
SNP
A country has a responsibility to develop the capability of its citizens. The Governments in London and Edinburgh control economic management, social securit...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
I come from a singular part of Scotland and I realise that there are many different areas in Scotland. Does Jim Mather accept that the solution to the proble...
Jim Mather:
SNP
I accept that many systems that have worked well in the central belt have not worked in the Highlands and I am not for one minute saying that we should not g...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
We all agree that the fact that many of our young people have no opportunity to create a meaningful life for themselves is quite shameful. People generally a...