Committee
Local Government and Regeneration Committee 19 December 2012
19 Dec 2012 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
High Hedges (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning, Mr McDonald, and welcome to the other side of the table. Over the past couple of weeks, you have joined us on the members’ side.I noted that, in your comments on the definition of “high hedge”, you referred to“a constant barrier to light”—I am sure that that will be reflected in the Official Report. However, the current definition in the bill refers to “a barrier to light”. My understanding of the evidence of our witnesses from the Isle of Man, which we heard last week, is that they had estimated costs of £30,000 because they had to visit a particular site for more than 10 months in a year to determine whether there was an infringement of someone’s rights. The difficulty is that the definition of “high hedge” in the bill states that a high hedge is one that“forms a barrier to light”. Could you be specific? Do you mean“a constant barrier to light”or “a barrier to light”? Someone’s definition of “barrier to light” could be that they have a barrier to light over the months of November, December and January, but for the other nine months of the year they have sunlight. How do local government officers determine that there is sufficient barrier to light to take action?
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 4 is on the High Hedges (Scotland) Bill. This will be the third day this month that we have taken oral evidence as part of our examination of the...
Derek Mackay
I welcome the opportunity to provide the Government’s views on the High Hedges (Scotland) Bill, which is being promoted by Mark McDonald MSP. I am happy to r...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, minister. What is your view of the statutory definition set out in section 1?
Derek Mackay
The Government’s view is that the definition is appropriate and in line with comments made by a number of other stakeholders. Broadly, it strikes the right b...
The Convener
SNP
I open the questioning to members.
Stuart McMillan
SNP
The definition has been one of the two or three issues raised in the oral and written evidence that we have received. Indeed, most of those who made a writte...
Derek Mackay
Not on the basis of your proposition. After all, equality legislation already exists to protect individuals and groups. People might be looking for equality ...
Stuart McMillan
SNP
The fact that there has been discussion around a potential bill for some years indicates the difficulty of dealing with the situation. The legislation in Eng...
Derek Mackay
Mr McMillan is absolutely correct that no legislation has been enacted here because there has never been agreement on what we should proceed with. I think it...
Stuart McMillan
SNP
We heard some evidence last week about what happened on the Isle of Man. Its legislation is different as it includes deciduous trees and single trees. The ev...
Derek Mackay
From the evidence that I have seen—perhaps Mr McDonald can go into more detail—the ratio would not be 50:50; a majority of cases would be resolved. That is b...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
Good morning, panel. Minister, I have a few questions about the fees as stated in the financial memorandum to the bill. This morning, we have received eviden...
Derek Mackay
I do not have concerns, because the proposition is that the fee will reflect the cost of the local authority’s work. If that is applied proportionately, fair...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
Might some people be concerned about applying because they do not know what the fee will ultimately be?
Derek Mackay
They would of course know the fee on application. We do not know just now what the fee will be, because local authorities have not determined that, as they d...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
Thanks, minister. You just answered my other questions.
John Pentland
Lab
Minister, so far your knowledge has been much appreciated. I believe that if “The Beechgrove Garden” ever comes back, you will be a prime candidate for front...
The Convener
SNP
Minister? Or perhaps I should call you Renfrew’s answer to Jim McColl.
Derek Mackay
I thought that the highlight of my political year was the local government elections, but it might well now be the High Hedges (Scotland) Bill.There are diff...
John Wilson
SNP
Last week, we heard evidence from the Isle of Man. In one example, an appeal was taken forward by an individual against whom a complaint had been made. We we...
Derek Mackay
I would want to understand how that figure was arrived at and whether the same definitions as those that we are deploying in the bill were used. Mr McMillan ...
John Wilson
SNP
I agree that any legislation that we introduce should be cost effective and, for local authorities, cost neutral in many respects. The difficulty is that the...
Derek Mackay
In arguing with himself—quite successfully—Mr Wilson has made the point that this is a question of interpretation, application and assessment and that, somet...
John Wilson
SNP
I welcome the minister’s confidence that the guidance to the bill will be right and that there will be a consistent approach to its implementation by 32 loca...
Derek Mackay
We aspire to as much consistency as possible. However, in a dispute there will be local circumstances and local application of the guidance. It will be a jud...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Setting aside how the fee is calculated, the financial memorandum makes it plain that the fee will be paid by the complainant. The minister will be aware tha...
Derek Mackay
We are interested to hear the committee’s views, and those of Mr McDonald, but we are content with the current proposition, which is, as Margaret Mitchell ha...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I put it to you that charging the owner of the hedge may be a powerful deterrent that could lead to an early resolution, saving the local authority and all t...
Derek Mackay
I understand the rationale, and I can see how what you describe could be a deterrent. However, the system in which the complainant pays the fee works, too, a...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The percentage probably strikes the right balance in that if the notice is upheld—or even if there is a threat that that will happen—the complainant and the ...