Chamber
Plenary, 05 Feb 2009
05 Feb 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Financial Sector Jobs Task Force
John Park has just made a pertinent point about jobs. All of us know constituents, and many of us have friends and family, who work in the financial services sector. Even those who are not immediately faced with the prospect of redundancy are feeling uneasy. There is a great deal of uncertainty and concern in the industry about what the situation means for people's jobs, homes and families. That concern will remain with us for some time.
I echo what John Park said about the approach of the banks. So far, they have taken a responsible approach in dealing with the inevitable concerns. We are all realistic, particularly in relation to the banks that are undergoing strategic change, that there will be reductions in head count. That is inevitable, and it means real people losing their jobs. That needs to be handled very carefully. So far, the banks have taken a sensitive approach.
We are all aware of the importance of the financial services sector to Scotland. Even with the recession, and even if the impact of the recession on the financial services sector proves to be significant, it will be very important to Scotland in terms of employment and its contribution to the economy. It is important not to lose sight of that. I get frustrated with some of the media, and indeed some politicians, given their approach to the financial services sector. A year ago, it could do no wrong. People were lining up to heap praise on Scottish banks, saying how amazing they were and how great their strategies were. Now, in many cases, the very same people are turning tail and criticising them, pretending that they knew all along that their strategies were terribly flawed. It is a bit rich that so many commentators are happy to take pot shots at businesses that are struggling and happy to take credit when they are doing well. That said, we now need to move on and deal with the situation that we face.
When FiSAB was set up, it was undoubtedly in the context of a financial services sector that was growing at a significant rate, faster than the rest of the economy. Nonetheless, at the time, the strategy documents that FiSAB released acknowledged some of the challenges that the financial sector faced. Key among them was the fact that the strength of having a large financial sector in Scotland could be a challenge in difficult circumstances. That is exactly the problem that the Scottish economy faces now. We have become very reliant on the financial services sector because it has done well, which is positive, but when there are difficulties in the sector we are more exposed to the downturn. We are also more reliant on headquarters for other services, including professional services.
The Labour amendment is entirely sensible. FiSAB was indeed set up with involvement from the trade unions, and it is entirely appropriate, particularly when we are considering the impact on jobs, for trade union involvement to be included. I am happy, on behalf of the Conservatives, to accept the Labour amendment.
Turning to our own amendment, we think that it is important to monitor what is happening in employment in the financial sector. There has perhaps been too little emphasis on the contribution of the financial sector in the past, but it is important that we are all aware of the contribution that it makes and of changes in employment throughout the sector as we go through the recession. It might take many years to reach the end of the difficulties for the financial sector, and it is important that all of us in the Parliament are aware not just of the number of jobs in the sector but of the many jobs that rely upon it indirectly.
We should perhaps reflect on FiSAB's ability to make a significant difference. We are dealing with a major financial situation that is leading to significant changes across the sector. The Government should do what it can to help, but let us not kid ourselves that FiSAB or anyone else can wave a magic wand to get rid of the challenges. The task of Government is surely to mitigate the impact and to do what it can.
I move amendment S3M-3384.1, to insert at end:
"and for such reports to include the latest estimate of the number of jobs in the financial sector in Scotland, direct and indirect."
I echo what John Park said about the approach of the banks. So far, they have taken a responsible approach in dealing with the inevitable concerns. We are all realistic, particularly in relation to the banks that are undergoing strategic change, that there will be reductions in head count. That is inevitable, and it means real people losing their jobs. That needs to be handled very carefully. So far, the banks have taken a sensitive approach.
We are all aware of the importance of the financial services sector to Scotland. Even with the recession, and even if the impact of the recession on the financial services sector proves to be significant, it will be very important to Scotland in terms of employment and its contribution to the economy. It is important not to lose sight of that. I get frustrated with some of the media, and indeed some politicians, given their approach to the financial services sector. A year ago, it could do no wrong. People were lining up to heap praise on Scottish banks, saying how amazing they were and how great their strategies were. Now, in many cases, the very same people are turning tail and criticising them, pretending that they knew all along that their strategies were terribly flawed. It is a bit rich that so many commentators are happy to take pot shots at businesses that are struggling and happy to take credit when they are doing well. That said, we now need to move on and deal with the situation that we face.
When FiSAB was set up, it was undoubtedly in the context of a financial services sector that was growing at a significant rate, faster than the rest of the economy. Nonetheless, at the time, the strategy documents that FiSAB released acknowledged some of the challenges that the financial sector faced. Key among them was the fact that the strength of having a large financial sector in Scotland could be a challenge in difficult circumstances. That is exactly the problem that the Scottish economy faces now. We have become very reliant on the financial services sector because it has done well, which is positive, but when there are difficulties in the sector we are more exposed to the downturn. We are also more reliant on headquarters for other services, including professional services.
The Labour amendment is entirely sensible. FiSAB was indeed set up with involvement from the trade unions, and it is entirely appropriate, particularly when we are considering the impact on jobs, for trade union involvement to be included. I am happy, on behalf of the Conservatives, to accept the Labour amendment.
Turning to our own amendment, we think that it is important to monitor what is happening in employment in the financial sector. There has perhaps been too little emphasis on the contribution of the financial sector in the past, but it is important that we are all aware of the contribution that it makes and of changes in employment throughout the sector as we go through the recession. It might take many years to reach the end of the difficulties for the financial sector, and it is important that all of us in the Parliament are aware not just of the number of jobs in the sector but of the many jobs that rely upon it indirectly.
We should perhaps reflect on FiSAB's ability to make a significant difference. We are dealing with a major financial situation that is leading to significant changes across the sector. The Government should do what it can to help, but let us not kid ourselves that FiSAB or anyone else can wave a magic wand to get rid of the challenges. The task of Government is surely to mitigate the impact and to do what it can.
I move amendment S3M-3384.1, to insert at end:
"and for such reports to include the latest estimate of the number of jobs in the financial sector in Scotland, direct and indirect."
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-3384, in the name of Jeremy Purvis, on a financial sector jobs task force.
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
It is not hyperbole to say that the banking and financial services sector in Scotland is going through the most significant period of concern in its history....
Gavin Brown (Lothians) (Con):
Con
The member will see from our amendment that we are sympathetic to his proposal. Have the Liberal Democrats had any offline discussions with FiSAB members to ...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
I welcome the Conservatives' welcome today for the establishment of a specific group—it is disappointing that yesterday they ridiculed the proposal. My discu...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab):
Lab
It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of the Labour Party in this debate. We have debated the issues facing the financial services sector and banking on many o...
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
John Park has just made a pertinent point about jobs. All of us know constituents, and many of us have friends and family, who work in the financial services...
The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather):
SNP
The Scottish Government agrees with the motion and will propose that a finance sector jobs task force be established within the context of the existing FiSAB...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open debate.
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the chance to contribute to this debate. I rise to support the amendment in the name of my colleague John Park. I strongly believe that, at a time ...
Angela Constance (Livingston) (SNP):
SNP
As we have heard this morning, the importance of the financial services sector to the Scottish economy is unquestionable. Between quarter 1 of 2001 and quart...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the debate. As an Edinburgh MSP, I want to say how important the issue is for the city of Edinburgh, the Lothians and the Scottish economy. There a...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
It is with great pleasure that I rise to speak in support of the forward-looking initiative of the Liberal Democrats. In fact, I wish to allude to them and a...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
Like yesterday's budget debate, in which only two members voted against the motion, this is one of those rare occasions on which the whole Parliament comes t...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
Will the member be honest with his constituents and tell them that he actively encouraged the merger between Lloyds TSB and HBOS?
David Whitton:
Lab
I thought that this was an occasion on which members would speak as one. There is no reason why Lloyds TSB and HBOS should not have come together. It was the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
We move to the wind-up speeches. Time is on members' side.
Gavin Brown (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Well, in that case—The Lib Dem proposition is a pragmatic one for an industry that has for some time been the jewel in Scotland's crown. I welcome the move a...
Ian McKee:
SNP
My point was not about the people who collect the figures but about the people who provide them. I have it on good authority that various firms change their ...
Gavin Brown:
Con
Dr McKee makes a fair point. The way in which the figures were collected changed between 2002 and 2006, but that only underlines the importance of our amendm...
John Park:
Lab
I welcome the consensus that we have achieved in the debate this morning. I particularly welcome Gavin Brown's and Derek Brownlee's comments about the role o...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney):
SNP
Margaret Smith and I have come to an arrangement about the remainder of the speaking time. I will leave it as a surprise for members to discover what the bal...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
Sit down now.
John Swinney:
SNP
I do not think that that remark from Mr Purvis is in the spirit of consensus. I shall allow him to think about it for a little longer.The debate has been pro...
David Whitton:
Lab
I have mentioned offshoring of jobs before, and John Park mentioned it in his speech. Has the cabinet secretary raised it with the officials of the banks wit...
John Swinney:
SNP
Offshoring of jobs is of concern to the Government, and we have raised it in our general discussions with the financial services sector. Obviously, we will c...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
Does the cabinet secretary accept that there might be a new role for the public sector? If the people who are leaving the financial sector with considerable ...
John Swinney:
SNP
That is a fair point, which also fits into the line of argument that we were advancing in the discussions around PACE yesterday. We are all agreed about what...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
We have had a good debate this morning. I welcome the general agreement about the pragmatic suggestion from the Liberal Democrats. The support of members thr...
David Whitton:
Lab
I appreciate the points that Margaret Smith is making, as her area covers a large section of the financial services industry. Does she recognise—I am sure sh...
Margaret Smith:
LD
David Whitton has mentioned what I was coming to.I agree with the City of Edinburgh Council's head of city development that diversification is reasonable to ...