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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I want to ask about the framework for establishing new public bodies. There is a draft ministerial control framework, which the Scottish Government has been using for the past two years, that sets out criteria to be applied should a new public body be created. Part of the fram...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning. I want to ask some questions on audit fees and costs, because that has come up in our evidence, including from the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman. The committee is dealing with SPCB supported bodies, which tend to have relatively small budgets, and the cost o...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning, panel. Alison Payne has reminded me that Reform Scotland published an excellent paper last year on parliamentary reform. I cannot quite remember who wrote it, but I commend it to colleagues. To come back to the issue that I want to pursue, we already have set cr...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I have a very quick follow-up question. To encapsulate your point, Mr Ireland, you can see no advantage to your becoming an SPCB-supported body, as opposed to what you are. Do you think that that would make no difference to the independence of operation that you have?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I have a couple of questions on how you exercise your functions, which I will be specific about. I will start with Julie Paterson. The Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland has the authority to carry out investigations and make recommendations that it “considers appropriate”...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you for that. I am interested in how you, as a minister or as part of the Government, view commissioners? What is the value of an independent, SPCB-supported commissioner, as opposed to MSPs, MPs and others?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Sorry—I missed that one. We have taken evidence on the existing criteria for creating new SPCB-supported bodies. The Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the criteria be strengthened and formalised. Do you have any views on how that might be done? Who i...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That was interesting. We are all conscious that the Parliament unanimously agreed to a motion from the Finance and Public Administration Committee last year that there should be a moratorium on new SPCB-supported bodies, pending the work that that committee is doing. Notwithst...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
When we spoke to the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner, he suggested increasing the frequency of his budget meetings with the SPCB and aligning them with the budget bid cycle. Do you have any views on that? How would that impact on capacity?
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
12 Dec 2024
Interests
Good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in session 6 of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee. I have the pleasure of convening the meeting for the first two items of business. By convention, the oldest member of the committee has to convene the opening ...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you. That was very helpful. In fact, you have pre-empted my follow-up question, which was about potentially reviewing the funding model. You seem to be suggesting that, in contemplation, you are not enthusiastic about that.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning. I will pick up on what Colin Smyth said, which is a good starting point. I want to follow up on the convener’s thread. You will have followed the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s discussions on the matter. The core of our work is to understand the r...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
You and Jeremy Balfour have both made very compelling arguments for why there should be commissioners, but that leads me to my second question. Where do you draw the line? We could have commissioners for everything. Given that you could make a strong argument for commissioners...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I specifically want to ask you about the criteria. How integral to your proposal, as you developed it, were the criteria that were set down by the Finance Committee in session 2?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Yes.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Would your proposals not fit under the remit of the Scottish Human Rights Commission? Jeremy, that commission told you that it does not have the resource, so instead of having separate commissioners for disabled people and for older people, could the Human Rights Commission be...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I have a final question for all three of you, but I am conscious of time, so please give brief answers. When a member proposes a new commissioner, the non-Government bills unit advises the member to discuss the proposal with other commissioners or bodies operating in the lands...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
13 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is a fair point, which we have previously heard made by other witnesses from whom we have taken evidence. Reform Scotland’s written submission says that the criteria have not been followed, and the Parliament has just ignored them, which I think is probably fair comment....
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I want to ask Matthew Gill about that aspect. In your 2023 report you proposed three new tests for establishing a public body, which involved considering effectiveness, independence and cost efficiency. What are your thoughts are on this issue and on the interaction with the c...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
The Scottish Information Commissioner, David Hamilton, made that point to the committee when he came to give evidence a few weeks ago—namely, that even he could not properly get a handle on how many public bodies there are in Scotland, despite the role that his office has in s...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
We should not just rule out new commissioners for the sake of it, as there might be a case for them.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Dr Lamont, I have a specific question about your paper. First, however, do have you any thoughts on that broader question?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I do not want to put words in your mouth, but we are trying to extrapolate lessons for us from your research. In essence, are you saying that someone with a purely advocacy role is of limited value?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
20 Mar 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
You co-wrote a paper with Pamela Cox and Maurice Sunkin on the case for the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. That is relevant because, right now, this Parliament is discussing a proposed victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. I think that the convener sits...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning—or, rather, good evening, Dr Wilson. Morning for us; evening for you. I will ask about the criteria for creating new officers, which is the issue that in effect led to this committee being established. There are a number of proposals to set up new commissioners, ...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is really helpful. That is quite a long list of officers that have been proposed. Do those proposals come only from the Government, or do they come from elsewhere, such as from members of Parliament and so on?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is a similar position to the one that we are in, as it is usually Opposition members of Parliament who propose a new commissioner. Were the proposals rejected on the basis that they did not meet the criteria?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
The criteria were created in 1989. Have they been reviewed or updated? Is there a review mechanism for them or are they quite settled?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
It does sound like that.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I have a final question, given what you have just said about the principle that new officers of Parliament should be created only rarely, and that none has been created since 1989. If there is a compelling need to do so, how does the committee balance that with the requirement...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
03 Apr 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is all that I have to ask. Do you want to add a comment on anything that we have yet to cover about the criteria for creating new officers?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
As you will be aware, one of the reasons that this committee was established was to look not just at the role of existing supported bodies but at the case for any new ones, because a number of proposals to create new commissioners are in train. We are looking at that whole fra...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
With regard to the outcomes from that whole process, how confident are you that you are seeing meaningful change from your recommendations?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is very helpful. I turn to Mr Naylor to ask a couple of questions about HMICS. It has wide-ranging powers from the 2012 act, including the “power to do anything that you consider necessary or expedient for the purposes of, or in connection with, the carrying out of their...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
It is very much a collaborative approach of working with your colleagues.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
01 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I enjoyed your turn of phrase about rampaging across other people’s briefs. Perhaps, for completeness, I should ask either Julie Paterson or John Ireland the same question about overlap with other bodies and collaborative working. Have you got any experience of that? I appreci...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning, minister and officials. One issue that the committee has been considering is the rationale behind the drive to create new commissioners. You will be aware that there are three proposals in train; there might be others in the ether. There are people wanting to cre...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you, convener. We have been trying to understand what the driver is for that. Why are people proposing commissioners? We are not exactly an under-governed country: we have 129 MSPs, 57 MPs, 20-something Government ministers and 130-something Government bodies. Why do peo...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
To be fair, we recognise that there is a difference.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
As a minister, what is more likely to keep you awake at night: a report from a commissioner or a report from a parliamentary committee—assuming that the report in question is critical?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Of course. The point that I am trying to get to is: what is the added value of a commissioner, as opposed to cross-party parliamentary committees that produce reports? As a minister, if you have a critical report from a commissioner and a critical report from a parliamentary c...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That was a very diplomatic answer.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Yes. So, you are saying that it is more about the outside noise that could be generated.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I am looking at the convener of the Public Audit Committee, who is sitting two seats along from me. That committee regularly produces reports that are critical of the Government, which I am sure that ministers are awake to and pay attention to.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
08 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Okay. Thank you.
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Good morning. The committee is interested in trying to understand the purpose of commissioners and the added value that they bring. Indeed, Mr Carlaw, you alluded to that in what you have just said. It is clear from the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report and ...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I am happy to get your personal view.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Thank you.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Is that a helpful exchange?
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
15 May 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
That is fine.
Murdo Fraser Con Chamber
18 Sep 2025
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
I look forward to hearing the contributions from Mr Whitfield and his colleagues. We will see whether Mr Leonard has changed his mind since he sat on the committee. Mr Leonard is shaking his head. It is clear that Labour representatives on not just one but two parliamentary co...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): Con Committee
17 Dec 2008
Review of SPCB-supported Bodies
In the past, I have certainly raised informally with Audit Scotland issues to do with the operation of the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman. I am not sure that such issues are entirely a matter for this committee but, given this opportunity to comment on the bodies that are ...
Murdo Fraser: Con Committee
17 Dec 2008
Review of SPCB-supported Bodies
I am happy to take your advice on the matter, convener. It may not be appropriate to this item to pursue that further. I have made my views known.
Murdo Fraser: Con Committee
17 Dec 2008
Review of SPCB-supported Bodies
In effect, yes.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
07 Dec 2016
Draft Budget Scrutiny 2017-18
My second question is on an unrelated matter that I have raised previously: remuneration of committee advisers. I have felt for a long time that advisers to Parliament’s committees are not sufficiently remunerated for the work that they do. I know that there has been an increa...
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
12 Dec 2018
Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget 2019-20
Thank you for that. That is interesting. I had always understood that MSPs’ pay came out of the SPCB’s budget, but does ministers’ pay come out of the same budget? I would have thought that their pay would come out of the Scottish Government’s budget.
Murdo Fraser Con Committee
18 Dec 2019
Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget 2020-21
Does the SPCB carry out value-for-money assessments of security measures that have already been implemented? I give the example of the fingerprint entry system, which I know that a number of members have raised complaints about. I always do what I am told, so I signed up early...
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Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee 15 May 2025

15 May 2025 · S6 · SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee
Item of business
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I want to ask about the framework for establishing new public bodies. There is a draft ministerial control framework, which the Scottish Government has been using for the past two years, that sets out criteria to be applied should a new public body be created. Part of the framework specifies engagement with the SPCB at an early stage to discuss any proposed SPCB-supported bodies and potential impacts on the SPCB budget.

I have two questions, which I will ask together to save time. Have you had any interactions with the Scottish Government on proposed new bodies? To what extent are you able to feed in views on the SPCB’s capacity to provide effective governance?

In the same item of business

The Convener (Ben Macpherson) SNP
Welcome, everyone, to the 12th meeting in 2025 of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee. I have received no apologies for today’s meeting, but...
Maggie Chapman MSP (Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body)
Good morning and thank you very much for inviting us to participate in your work and for the work that you have done on this issue so far. We are pleased to ...
The Convener SNP
Thank you. Colleagues will have further questions, but I would just say that, as we have looked into this more deeply, the challenge for us has been that, al...
Jackson Carlaw MSP (Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body)
You have asked a fundamental question, which is: what are the office-holders for? It is a question that we ask ourselves, but it is not our job to define it....
The Convener SNP
That was really helpful, and it leads on to next area of questioning.
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Good morning. The committee is interested in trying to understand the purpose of commissioners and the added value that they bring. Indeed, Mr Carlaw, you al...
Maggie Chapman
That is an interesting question. I do not think that the corporate body would necessarily take a view on it, given the constraints of our role. However, havi...
Murdo Fraser Con
I am happy to get your personal view.
Maggie Chapman
There are questions of perception and who is doing the perceiving. To the general public, a critical report from a commissioner might seem much harder hittin...
Jackson Carlaw
My concern is not with the Scottish Information Commissioner, the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman or the Ethical Sta...
Murdo Fraser Con
Thank you.
The Convener SNP
That was very helpful. Thank you.
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
I have a cheeky supplementary question to Murdo Fraser’s question. Mr Carlaw, we have been speaking about effectiveness. Some of the evidence that the commit...
Jackson Carlaw
I agree about the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner. In fact, that is a perfect example. It is probably the smallest of the commissioner offices. Over the tim...
Maggie Chapman
This really comes down to who has the scrutiny role for the different office-holder bodies. This committee and the Finance and Public Administration Committe...
Lorna Slater Green
That is brilliant. I will now ask the question that I am supposed to ask, which is about following up on recommendations that were made to the SPCB previousl...
Maggie Chapman
I will hand over to Allan Campbell to answer that, if that is okay.
Allan Campbell (Scottish Parliament)
We received a letter from the Ethical Standards Commissioner on behalf of the other commissioners. I think that it was also copied to this committee. The chi...
Lorna Slater Green
That is superb. There were three recommendations from FPAC. I am going to ask for an update on those, because they relate to matters that this committee is a...
Allan Campbell
The main update on that is in our letter to the finance committee, which I am sure that we can share. I can give an additional update on the most recent deve...
Lorna Slater Green
This committee will need to consider whether it makes recommendations on that topic if that work is already under way. Another recommendation that the finan...
Maggie Chapman
The corporate body extracts of minutes are always available. We are looking at ways to ensure transparency, although we might not provide detail, because the...
Jackson Carlaw
When you talked about accommodation, did you mean physical location?
Lorna Slater Green
Yes.
Jackson Carlaw
In the previous parliamentary session, I was on the corporate body when we reviewed all those matters and decided to explore the possibilities at Bridgeside ...
Maggie Chapman
It is important to remember that the co-location of services does not have to mean geography. A range of services can happen in the background, especially in...
The Convener SNP
I will come in here, if that is all right.
Lorna Slater Green
Yes. I have one more thing to follow up on but will do so after you. 10:00
The Convener SNP
I will come back to you in a minute. I appreciate the point about wanting different aspects of the public sector to be in different parts of Scotland—that a...
Jackson Carlaw
My recollection of when Bridgeside house became an option is that we were keen to identify suitable accommodation and that it was quite an exercise to find s...