Committee
Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee 27 February 2013
27 Feb 2013 · S4 · Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee
Item of business
Underemployment Inquiry
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2013 of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee. I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones and other electronic devices. We have apologies this morning from Dennis Robertson. I welcome Joan McAlpine as his substitute. There are also apologies from David Torrance, who is running late and hopes to join us shortly.We have a very busy agenda this morning. Item 1 is the continuation of our inquiry into underemployment in Scotland. I welcome John Swinney, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth, who is joined by Julie Bilotti from the employability policy team at the Scottish Government, and Graeme Roy, deputy director of the office of the chief economic adviser.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Murdo Fraser)
Con
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2013 of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee. I remind everyone to turn off th...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to attend the committee to discuss its inquiry into underemployment. In evidence, the committee has heard the reasons for and the i...
The Convener
Con
I am sure that members will wish to pursue a number of areas in questions. We are tight for time, and I know that you need to be away to the Finance Committe...
John Swinney
No, it is not. One could take that view only if one believed that there was no prospect or possibility of delivering higher levels of economic growth in Scot...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
The committee took evidence from Professor Bell, who, along with Professor Blanchflower, carried out a study in this area. Professor Bell seemed to be unsure...
John Swinney
My general view on the debate on which Professor Bell was commenting—and this commentary comes up quite frequently in economic assessments of the experience ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
At the outset of this inquiry, I would have agreed that underemployment was preferable to unemployment. I am not so sure about that now, given some of the ev...
John Swinney
SNP
As I said, the Government recognises the importance of the issue of underemployment and therefore seeks to tackle it by ensuring that we create the condition...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I will interrupt you there. I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. However, given that the Government does not have those powers but has powe...
John Swinney
SNP
The Government does not utilise zero-hours contracts.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
But what about its contractors? Is that written into contracts?
John Swinney
SNP
I cannot give a definitive answer on whether that is a factor in all written contracts, but we expect contractors to meet acceptable standards in the quality...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
What specifically can you do with contracting that makes that happen?
John Swinney
SNP
We require contractors to meet particular standards of employment practice.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
Do those standards say that there should be no zero-hours contracts?
John Swinney
SNP
I have already said that I cannot give a definitive answer on whether that is the case in every contract. I will endeavour to provide the committee with a de...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I understand that, but your idea of high standards might be different from mine—the issue is subjective. Are there specific conditions that have to be met?
John Swinney
SNP
Contractual terms exist in all those contracts and govern all sorts of different aspects. We have been through some of that territory in Parliament on many o...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I understand that you probably do not have clauses and the like to hand today, but is it possible for you to give us a flavour of the sort of clauses that ex...
John Swinney
SNP
I suspect that I might be sending the committee an articulated lorry full of contractual information—
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I am talking about clauses that relate specifically to underemployment.
John Swinney
SNP
It is perhaps better to look at it in this way: if the committee can provide us with evidence that zero-hours contracts are being implemented by contractors ...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I disagree—the Government should impose that condition on contractors.
John Swinney
SNP
I will endeavour to find what information I can for the committee.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
Thank you.
The Convener
Con
Alison Johnstone wants to come in on that point.
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
Paper 1 for today’s meeting advises us that“The recently published Workplace Employment Relations Survey shows that”there is an increase in the use of“zero h...
John Swinney
SNP
As I have said, the Government does not use zero-hours contracts in contracting with its staff, which is a pretty clear signal that the Government does not a...
Alison Johnstone
Green
That would be helpful.I have another question in a similar vein. Yesterday, as part of our underemployment inquiry, we visited Amazon in Dunfermline, which r...
The Convener
Con
That is slightly off the topic of underemployment.