Committee
Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee, 26 May 2009
26 May 2009 · S3 · Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee
Item of business
Climate Change (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I was glad to see Des McNulty's amendment 50 among the amendments in this group, but it does not go far enough. In his book "Kyoto2", Oliver Tickell sets out his concerns about whether carbon credit schemes are working as well as they should be.As we have discussed, if the bill is to be a success it must set emissions targets at the right level and set out a framework for how best to achieve those targets. Amendment 125 addresses that point.As introduced, the bill allows for an unlimited number of carbon credits to be purchased and credited to the net Scottish emissions account. In effect, that could mean—although I am sure it would not happen—that the targets in the bill could be met entirely through purchasing credits from overseas, which would mean that there was absolutely no incentive for emissions reductions in Scotland.We have consistently argued that countries such as ours, which have high current emissions, high historical emissions and huge potential for the use of renewables, must take the lead. We have clearly won that argument, as colleagues in the Government and the Labour Party have lodged amendments to include some form of restriction, but neither of their approaches is anywhere near strong enough.Amendment 125 seeks to ensure that, during the period 2010 to 2019, the proportion of carbon units bought in should be no more than 20 per cent of the net Scottish emissions account, that that figure should reduce to 10 per cent in the period from 2020 to 2039, and that during the period from 2040 to 2050 all reductions in the net Scottish emissions account should be made within Scotland—without any use of carbon units bought from elsewhere. I will be happy to address any concerns that there may be about that. Amendment 125 would also allow the percentages to be revised—but only to ensure that fewer credits are used to meet our reduction targets.The transformation to a low-carbon economy must begin at home, and preferably now. That is a fundamental factor in how we choose to meet our current targets.By fixing such a limit on the use of carbon units, we would not only be taking responsibility for our own actions but providing an incentive for business and industry in Scotland to adopt and develop the groundbreaking technologies that will be fundamental to the future of the world.Businesses in Scotland that are already engaging in carbon reduction believe that it has benefited them, but there is still a feeling among businesses in general that it is a problem. It is not a problem, however, but an opportunity for them. Scotland has the potential to be a world leader in tackling climate change—but only if we commit to solving our own problems by making reductions here instead of relying on the rest of the world to do it for us. The whole world cannot pay someone else to solve the problem: someone will have to take a lead. We should stand up and ensure that Scotland lives up to the minister's rhetoric with real action.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Patrick Harvie):
Green
Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the 14th meeting this year of the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee. I remind members, witness...
Before section 1
The Convener:
Green
Amendment 75, which is in my name, is in a group on its own. We are considering amendment 75 first, but it relates to the final paragraph of our stage 1 repo...
The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson):
SNP
Amendment 75 clearly aims to insert a founding principle into the bill, and we recognise the spirit in which the amendment was lodged. The proposing member r...
The Convener:
Green
The term "anthropogenic climate change" is widely—in fact, globally—recognised and understood. I do not accept the argument that it would introduce ambiguity...
Members:
No.
The Convener:
Green
There will be a division.
ForHarvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)McInnes, Alison (North East Scotland) (LD)AgainstGibson, Rob (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)Gordon, Charlie (Glasgow Cathca...
The Convener:
Green
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 6, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 75 disagreed to.
Section 1—The 2050 target
The Convener:
Green
Amendment 76, in the name of Robin Harper, is in a group on its own.
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
For the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill to be a success, it will need to do two things: first, it will need to set targets for reductions in emissions at the ...
The Convener:
Green
I remind the member that we are debating amendment 76, which is the only amendment in this group. There will be opportunities to debate other amendments as w...
Robin Harper:
Green
I see. I am sorry, convener. When I was preparing what I wanted to say, I presumed that the amendments that I have been discussing would be taken together.I ...
The Convener:
Green
As no other members want to contribute to the debate on amendment 76, I invite the minister to respond.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Members will know that I have emphasised the need to be driven by expert advice; we should not proceed before taking expert advice. The United Kingdom Govern...
The Convener:
Green
I invite Robin Harper to wind up the discussion on amendment 76.
Robin Harper:
Green
I suppose that it all depends on our attitude. The minister would like us to prove that it is necessary to revise the target to 90 per cent and that we can a...
The Convener:
Green
The question is, that amendment 76 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener:
Green
There will be a division.
ForHarvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)AgainstGibson, Rob (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)Gordon, Charlie (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotl...
The Convener:
Green
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 7, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 76 disagreed to.
Section 1 agreed to.
Section 2—The interim target
The Convener:
Green
Amendment 1, in the name of Alison McInnes, is grouped with amendments 2 to 6, 8, 24 to 31 and 35. I refer members to the notes on pre-emptions in this group...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD):
LD
Amendment would 1 bring the interim target date forward to 2020, putting the Scottish bill in line with UK and other international reporting and legislation....
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I will explain our position on Ms McInnes's amendments. I am happy to support amendment 1—indeed, we submitted an identical amendment, albeit after Ms McInne...