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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
The Convener: LD Committee
15 Dec 2004
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We heard from the Welsh Language Board that the Welsh Language Act 1993 managed to ensure that the English and Welsh languages were treated on a "basis of equality" through the use of the phraseology"so far as is both appropriate in the circumstances and reasonably practicable...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We will do, but for the purpose of the stage 1 report we should not be tied to specific words. We are not experts, and we would need legal guidance on the definitions anyway if it came to it.Paragraph 31, as drafted, is not quite what we want to say—we are all agreed on that. ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
21 Dec 2005
Joint Inspection of Children's Services and Inspection of Social Work Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I hope that the committee will forgive me for giving what might be a rather confused, bits-and-pieces response.I echo a point that Fiona Hyslop made. Obviously, there were concerns among committee members and more widely about the urgency of the bill. I am reassured by the pro...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
04 Oct 2006
Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
We have discussed amendment 166, in the name of Adam Ingram, which is a reasonably straightforward matter.The desire to have a seamless adoption support service at all different levels lies behind most of the amendments. There is an issue of phraseology. We have undertaken to ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
01 Nov 2006
Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I hear what has been said. In many ways, the different subsections of section 9 have quite a tortuous involvement with provisions in the Children (Scotland) Act 1995—which is the lead statue to which we will need to return often in our discussions—which lays down particular ph...
The Convener: LD Committee
14 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Yes. If members are happy with those comments, we will have a revision of that section of the draft report shortly.The next section, which is paragraphs 77 to 83, is about the reasonable cost issue. I do not want to spend too much time on this part, although I may be jumping t...
The Convener (Robert Brown): LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Education Committee. I remind everyone that mobile phones and pagers should be switched off so that we do not have funny noises during the proceedings. The only item on the agenda this morning is consideration of our draft stage ...
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The minister is undoubtedly under advice from his legal officials about what can be done on equal validity, and they tend to be terrified of the possible implications of certain phraseology. One understands that to a degree, but we can go a bit further, although I am not sure ...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The phraseology that I suggested covers that, because it knocks out the reference to the order in council. I wanted to add another recommendation using the phraseology, "The committee also believes that it is anomalous that the bill, unlike its Welsh equivalent, does not apply...
The Convener: LD Committee
02 Mar 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I have a lot of sympathy with Alex Neil's amendments 31 and 32. As he rightly said, we examined the issue in some depth. My starting point was that I found it odd that we were not in a position to impose legal obligations on agencies other than specifically devolved agencies. ...
The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Robert Brown): LD Committee
01 Nov 2006
Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I hear Rosemary Byrne's observations on the issue. She has raised an interesting interpretational point. All the amendments in the group are connected to how a court or adoption agency is to consider the role of the birth family and the child when considering whether adoption ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
07 Feb 2007
Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Bill
There has been close co-operation between officials here and in Whitehall. As you know, the definitions in the equivalent English and Welsh legislation—the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006—were the subject of interchange as it developed at Westminster. It is important t...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
20 Feb 2007
Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I begin by thanking committee members for their different approaches to the issue. There is no doubt that it is a difficult area, and that the suggestions that have been made and the debate that we are able to have help to clarify our thinking about the best way forward.It is ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
27 Sep 2006
Scottish Commissioner for Human Rights Bill: Stage 2
The issue is the phraseology. We have said that the determination of locus is subject to approval by the parliamentary corporation. It is likely that such phraseology would be used to refer to services, but we would also want to place a duty on the commissioner to have regard ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
25 Nov 2008
Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Are you happy with the phraseology? As you know, some witnesses have expressed reservations about the extent to which situations of historic abuse will be covered. Would the words "threats of violence made then or at some previous occasion", or another elaboration, do the tric...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
25 Nov 2008
Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Convener, if I may, I would like to catch up with the minister on a couple of equalities issues.Section 1 uses phraseology that refers to "artificial penis" and "artificial vagina". As you may be aware, equalities groups made some criticism of that phraseology and suggested th...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): LD Committee
02 Dec 2008
Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 2
As they say in the courts, I adopt the reasoning of my good friend, Mr Butler. I will add one or two further comments. The point about clarifying, rather than changing, the law is extremely important, and it is supported by the wording that the Government has used both in the ...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
02 May 2001
Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Leaving aside the way in which Tommy Sheridan is proposing to deal with the right to buy, there are two issues in section 18 that highlight the need to rebalance the sort of information that people are given about the right to buy. The first relates to section 18(4), which des...
Robert Brown: LD Committee
09 Oct 2002
Debt Arrangement and Attachment (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 2
This may seem a contrary attitude to take, but I am inclined to press amendment 43 and not to move amendment 47. There is an issue about whether the register should be public or semi-public, so I would be happy for the minister to reconsider the phraseology of section 7(2)(c)....
The Convener: LD Committee
26 Nov 2003
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
As Stuart Aitken mentioned, under section 3(2), the education authority will not be required to carry out a duty under section 3(1)(b) if it"is not practicable at a reasonable cost."The resources issue is the other side of the coin. What are your views on either the phraseolog...
The Convener: LD Committee
26 Nov 2003
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That does not quite answer the question that I asked. I asked whether the phraseology for giving the local authority an exemption from its duty—whether fulfilling that duty "is not practicable at a reasonable cost"—is reasonable. That point must be met.
The Convener: LD Committee
07 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We have not heard any evidence on the independent schools element. Perhaps it is not a concern, but that seems a bit odd.Via that useful link, we can now move on to the rights of the child. The general point is about the phraseology of the rights that are in the bill. Govan La...
The Convener: LD Committee
07 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I think that there is a deficiency in the phraseology in the bill. I was not entirely clear about the reason for restricting it in that way, not least given the involvement of children and rights in that regard.
The Convener: LD Committee
14 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
No, absolutely not. It precludes neither what we do at stages 2 and 3 nor the phraseology that we use when we come back to approve the report next week.We have taken quite a bit of time over that section, but it is an important section and it was worth spending time on it. The...
The Convener: LD Committee
14 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Yes, that is a valid point. Let us include a reference to the importance of advocacy in relation to assessments.The next section is headed "Pupils outwith the education system". I think that the report has encapsulated a good bit of what we have discussed on that issue. Do mem...
The Convener: LD Committee
14 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Shall we reconsider the phraseology of the section along the lines that have been suggested? We are clear that there should be a commitment to do something a bit better than the current position, whereby the rights under the bill would kick in when the child is three. We might...
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do you have a phraseology to suggest? It would probably come after the first sentence of my amendment.
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am sorry that I am going back slightly, but there is a slight phraseology issue in paragraph 209, where it says in the second sentence—
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Would the phraseology that I suggested, with the slight amendment to the point about the record of needs, cover the committee's view? We will expand on it later, depending on what we agree.
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We are using that phraseology.
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Let us see if we can get a phraseology out of that. We could say, "The Committee supports the ending of compulsory assessments, but notes the concerns of some parents that this might lead to difficulties or gaps in the assessment procedure." How is that? The report would conti...
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Have we got a phraseology on that? The committee would probably accept the point.
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
If it is helpful, let me clarify that I am prepared not to insist that our report should contain something that commits the committee to a view on whether the tribunal should be widened or extended. We should say simply that such an idea, which enjoys considerable support, is ...
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
If I am not interpreting people wrongly, I think that that is the essence of what the committee is trying to get at, although there may be the odd view off to one side or the other. Can we live with that broad approach and find the phraseology to nail the matter afterwards?
The Convener: LD Committee
21 Jan 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is a statement of part of the problem but not the whole problem. I think that we can work something up on that. It would be helpful if the clerks, Ken Macintosh and I could try to agree on some form of words to put to the committee, based on that suggestion. We could take m...
The Convener: LD Committee
28 Jan 2004
Subordinate Legislation
I would like to make an observation and ask a couple of questions. Some of the phraseology about pathway assessment seems to me to invent new forms of bureaucratic expression for no good effect. I wonder just how understandable it is to practitioners. My first question concern...
The Convener: LD Committee
25 Feb 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
We argued about that matter at stage 1 and I think that we reached that conclusion about the definition of "parent". I sympathise with what members have said. There are issues relating to capacity and consistency with other expressions. Like Elaine Murray, I am not altogether ...
The Convener: LD Committee
25 Feb 2004
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I think that Ken Macintosh is right. I, too, have concerns about amendment 16. I understand where Lord James is coming from, but the timing seems wrong. The amendment seems to say that when a co-ordinated support plan is drawn up, the statement must go in it. I am not sure tha...
The Convener: LD Committee
12 May 2004
School Education (Ministerial Powers and Independent Schools) (Scotland) Bill
That is an important point and we should reflect it in our report. The background to what we are doing is that a different regime is in place. I am not sure that I agree with the conclusion, but that is another matter. Do members feel that we have had enough of an exchange on ...
The Convener: LD Committee
29 Sep 2004
Curriculum Inquiry
In fairness, we are not focusing entirely on the secondary curriculum. The point was made that demotivation can start earlier in school than it once did and that it sometimes appears in primary school, so we should not exclude that. Perhaps the phraseology is all right.
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am not averse to the direction in which you are going. Perhaps we should consider the phraseology by taking on board your phrase and pondering over it until we finalise the report at our next meeting.
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We must come up with the phraseology for doing that effectively without tying the Executive up in unusual and unanticipated knots.
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I agree. I have been working on the phraseology of a sentence that could usefully be inserted at the end of paragraph 31, which ends the section on education. We should say something like, "While recognising the workforce supply issues, the committee recommends that stringent ...
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I was going to make that comment in relation to a later section. Breaking the sections into smaller bits might be helpful.The phraseology of paragraph 40 may be wrong, but we should stress the Scottish Executive's lead role in the area. The recommendation on that is not strong...
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We could work up some phraseology on the basis of the position that we have arrived at on that. We will leave the matter for the time being. A lot of work remains to be done, but we have had a useful discussion.On page 11, the education section ends and the cultural context se...
The Convener: LD Committee
12 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That could go in the section on education, perhaps in the resource bit. That general area would be as good a place as any.I have slight qualms about the phraseology in paragraph 76. I thought that we should concentrate not on the ones at the bottom, such as the Dumfries and Ga...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Proposed Early Years Inquiry
It is an issue of interpretation. Holding the Executive to account is the central core, but the remit is sufficiently general for us to address a series of implications and transitions, what might happen in future, and the principle of flexibility which, as officials said, is ...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Perhaps we could use the phraseology "securing the status in the future".
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The pondering relates not only to the terminology of the bill, but to the phraseology of the long title, which is not unimportant.
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Perhaps we need a reference to the fact that consideration might be given to the phraseology of the long title and whether it adequately reflects the desire to secure the future status and development of the language, or something of that sort. Is that all right?
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It might be helpful if I put on the record the reference that we are after. Section 47 of the Government of Wales Act 1998 provides that the Welsh Assembly must,"so far as is both appropriate in the circumstances and reasonably practicable",give effect"to the principle that th...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do you have a phraseology that you would like to suggest?
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It does not add anything. The phraseology that Fiona Hyslop suggested earlier begins to give us the picture.
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I think that members agree that we should redo the phraseology to reflect our view that, whether it is in Gaelic or in English, there should be high-quality education. We are talking about the standard of education and we shall knock out the second sentence in that paragraph a...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I think that that is done by the existing phraseology.Page 13 covers technology, in which Lord James has an interest. I do not know whether he has anything to say on the matter.
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am not quite sure whether that is what we mean. I like a good bit of the phraseology that you use—I have made similar written comments—but I think that your suggestion takes over the function of the Bòrd na Gàidhlig, whose job it is to say whether, to what extent and at what...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is essentially what Alex Neil was saying.I will try to divide the issue up. First, do we accept Fiona Hyslop's suggested phraseology for the first sentence of paragraph 64?Members indicated agreement.
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Secondly, we need a phraseology along the following lines: "The committee believes that a right of access to Gaelic-medium education throughout Scotland should be an aspiration for the future as the language planning process moves forward."
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My phraseology covers that as it refers to "all bodies operating in Scotland, both reserved and devolved", which is a general phrase. Are members happy with that? I appreciate that we are touching on the edges of the constitutional settlement, but it is important. I was struck...
The Convener: LD Committee
19 Jan 2005
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The language in the paragraph has been turned round since last week. Ken Macintosh's point is absolutely valid, but the Welsh Language Board's evidence uses some good phraseology, which is in some ways better than the minister's.
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Committee

Education Committee, 15 Dec 2004

15 Dec 2004 · S2 · Education Committee
Item of business
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Brown, Robert LD Glasgow Watch on SPTV
We heard from the Welsh Language Board that the Welsh Language Act 1993 managed to ensure that the English and Welsh languages were treated on a "basis of equality" through the use of the phraseology"so far as is both appropriate in the circumstances and reasonably practicable".Lawyers have a substantial ability to produce phraseology that could move us forward on the point of equal validity. We heard that no legal cases have arisen in Wales because of the wording in the 1993 act. There has been no need to interpret the "basis of equality" provision in practice and the bill's phraseology has caused no difficulty; it has simply set the direction and is just there in the background.

In the same item of business

The Convener: LD
Item 2 is evidence at stage 1 of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill. I welcome witnesses from Bòrd na Gàidhlig: Duncan Ferguson is the chair, Allan Campbell...
Duncan Ferguson (Bòrd na Gàidhlig):
Thank you. I am conscious of the fact that you have just had a tortuous session, as you said. We are pleased to be here. You will not be surprised to hear th...
Duncan Ferguson continued in Gaelic:
Madainn mhath. Seo an triùir againn a tha a' riochdachadh Bòrd na Gàidhlig an-diugh. Is mise Donnchadh Fearghasdan, cathraiche a' bhùird, Ìleach, fear a thài...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Three people are here to represent Bòrd na Gàidhlig, of which I am the chair. I am from Islay; I am a Gael who came back—I am sometimes called a recycled Gae...
The Convener: LD
Thank you. I echo your thoughts about Gaelic-medium education. In my modest capacity as a Glasgow member I have visited the Gaelic primary school and the sec...
Duncan Ferguson:
Mar a thuirt thu, tha e air leth cudthromach gum bi na briathran a tha air an cleachdadh anns a' bhile seo a' ciallachadh tòrr dhan mhòr-shluagh, agus gu h-à...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
As you say, an important point is that the words that are used in the bill will mean a lot to the public—especially to people who speak Gaelic. Members will ...
Robert Dunbar (Bòrd na Gàidhlig):
Tapadh leat, a Dhonnchaidh, agus tapadh leibh uile airson an cothrom a thoirt dhuinn a bhith an làthair an-diugh. Tha na h-aon thrioblaidean air a bhith agai...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
I thank the committee for the opportunity to give evidence.We have had the same problem with words. As our submission says, phrases such as "official status"...
The Convener: LD
Thank you very much. You have made the point that to be guided"by a principle of generosity and good will to the language and the aspirations of its speakers...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: Con
I understand that the bòrd will work with other bodies that have a remit for developing education. I presume that you will give them guidance. Are you happy ...
Duncan Ferguson:
Tha sinn air a bhith a' bruidhinn ris a' mhinistear mar-thà mu dheidhinn seo agus tha sinn gu math toilichte a bhith ag obair gu h-àraidh còmhla ri comhairle...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
We have been talking to the minister about that; we will be happy to work with local councils on education and other services that they provide and we hope t...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: Con
Are you confident that, through the use of good guidance, you will get United Kingdom bodies and private sector bodies to co-operate where there is a reasona...
Duncan Ferguson:
Iarraidh mi air Ailean Caimbeul freagairt a thoirt dhuibh air a' cheist sin.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
I ask Allan Campbell to answer that question.
Allan Campbell (Bòrd na Gàidhlig):
Is e am beachd a tha againne gu bheil deagh rùn gu bhith cho cudthromach ri dad sam bith eile ann a bhith a' coilionadh amasan a' bhile. Mar a bha Donnchadh ...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Our opinion is that good will is going to be as important as anything else in achieving our aims. As Duncan Ferguson said, working with the councils on educa...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: Con
Is it fair to say that you expect progress by way of persuasion through guidance rather than legislation?
Duncan Ferguson:
Gun teagamh. A-rithist, is e a bhith ag obair le daoine eile. Mar eisimpleir, tha am BBC, nach fheum a bhith a' dèanamh càil le Gàidhlig, fìor làidir ann a b...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
We must work with other people. For example, the BBC does not need to do more with Gaelic—it is especially strong in providing Gaelic services throughout Sco...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
We heard evidence—particularly when we went to Skye—of difficulties with bodies such as the Royal Mail, which refuses point blank to allow Gaelic addresses o...
Duncan Ferguson:
Is dòcha gu bheil thu ceart, Adam, ach chan eil fhios agam. Ailein, an toir thu freagairt dhan cheist, gu h-àraidh mu dheidhinn an Royal Mail?
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Perhaps you are right.
Allan Campbell:
Tha e fìor a ràdh, nuair a thig am bile dhan lagh, nach bi an aon seòrsa amasan aig a' bhile seo 's a tha aig suidheachadh na Cuimris anns a' Chuimrigh an-di...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
It is true that the bill does not have the same aims as Welsh legislation. Wales is working towards being a bilingual country in a few years; we cannot estab...
Duncan Ferguson:
Iarraidh mi air Rob Dunbar facal a ràdh a thaobh seo.
Following is the translation:
I will ask Rob Dunbar to answer that question.
Robert Dunbar:
Tha mi a' smaointinn gu bheil sinn aig ìre gu math ìosal ann an dòigh. Mar is trice, bidh buidhnean a' smaointinn gum biodh e uabhasach fhèin doirbh seirbhei...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
In a way, we are at a low ebb. Groups often think that it will be awfully difficult to deliver services through other languages, whatever they are. That is p...