Hansard

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Mar 2006

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Section 18 gives power to the authorised undertaker to divert the tram on to a temporary tramway if that is "necessary or expedient" because of road works on the road on which the tramway is laid. The road works need not be connected with the tram. The power to divert is essen...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

22 Nov 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

I will make one point on the figures for growth in car use. I have thought about them long and hard and I wonder how much the changing circumstances—higher fuel costs and perhaps future lack of availability of prime fuels—have been taken into consideration in the figures. If t...

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con Committee

23 Sep 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Preliminary Stage

I am interested in what you said about Manchester, as that is the only scheme in which passenger numbers are up and it seems the most financially viable case. I note that, recently, Manchester abandoned the idea of extending the light rail route. Why would that be, given that ...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Sep 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Preliminary Stage

My impression is that many of the light rail systems tend to help city centres. However, will that not result in the reverse of the objective, because people will drive into the cities to meet the light rail system? That will increase car usage rather than reduce it.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Sep 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Preliminary Stage

One of the NAO's objectives is to encourage further use of light rail systems. If that is the case, do you encourage the use of circular routes in city centres or, given your answer, would it be much better if the systems extended well into the outskirts rather than just being...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

That answers in part the question about affordability, given that it suggests that there is a relationship between the level of current bus fares and tram fares.You mentioned feeder services, but for a number of residents of north Edinburgh the tram stops will be a fair distan...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Another point that you made on the environment concerns the benefits of the tram with respect to noxious gas emissions. Do you agree that the peak time for tram use would probably be from about half past 7 until half past 9 in the morning and that the peak time in the afternoo...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Do the calculations that you used on other schemes not show a relatively low level of switch from car to tram? Surely an extremely low level of switch from car to tram is anticipated.

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Mr McIntosh referred to the possibility of there being concentrated periods of construction. In your experience, is it possible to concentrate on sections of the line and take them almost to completion before moving on to the next section?Scott McIntosh. Yes. There are ways of...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Will those words bring comfort to CGM—particularly with respect to on-going lets—that there might be means by which the construction period can be compressed?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

My final question is on a slightly different tack. We have talked about fittings on the building and maintenance using suspended platforms. Do you agree that there is a difference between a lamp post that is attached to a building and wires that extend and perhaps cross the ar...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Am I right to be concerned about your comment that, in some circumstances during construction, noise levels might be higher than 75dB? I am particularly concerned because you said that the council and TIE, which have a financial interest in the scheme, would be the arbitrators...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Sorry, convener, I tried to catch your eye. Mr Turner suggested that he could not give the undertaking for which Mr Currie asked. Who in TIE can give it?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Is it in order for me to ask whether, if the witness cannot identify the person or group that could take that decision, the committees could have an answer on the issue?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Thank you.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Mr McIntosh, you referred to a report on tramway schemes in England and Wales. My recollection is that the report suggests that all the benefits that were supposed to accrue from the tramway systems did not accrue and that the schemes in fact caused some kind of penalty on bus...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill and Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill: Consideration Stage

Effectively, what you have just said is that there are probably more benefits than negatives. With respect to Mr Currie's clients, will there be more benefits than negatives?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

My question recaps the discussion this morning. Ms Donald made the point that it is easy to overtake a broken-down tram, but it is not so easy for a tram to overtake a broken-down vehicle. We were told this morning that special powers would allow the company to remove such veh...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Mr Mitchell, I accept what you say about the change in noise not being noticeable when there are 1,600 vehicles an hour on the road. However, the tram will run into the evening, when things are a lot quieter, and with the same regularity as at the peak periods during the day. ...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

27 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

At this point, then, there is nothing concrete other than the fact that the tram is going up the Roseburn corridor and your preference would be for that tram to stop at the front door of the hospital.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Nov 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

What is your involvement with respect to safety and the type of tram that will ultimately run on the line? Are you aware of the dimensions, roughly, of the tram that will run on the line?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Mar 2006

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

During our scrutiny of the bill at the first phase of consideration stage, the committee agreed that the tram alignment should be amended in two areas of Edinburgh: at Haymarket Yards and at Ocean Terminal. In both cases, the committee agreed to the alignment change, as it was...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

I have a little bit of a list. First, I would be interested to know what Transport Initiatives Edinburgh has done with respect to the past performance of a tram system in Edinburgh. I would like to know whether TIE has looked back at why the tramlines were stripped out, what a...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

But it is not terribly reliable for running a tram system.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

02 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

You should come by tram next time.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

09 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

The people of Edinburgh go to the ballot box during elections. Was the tram not an issue during elections and was it sprung on people between elections?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

In your submission you say:"Tram in itself … will not operate to reduce congestion".Will you comment on what policy interventions you could introduce to reduce the congestion that could arise from the use of trams and the developments in the north of Edinburgh that we have tal...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

To some degree, the City of Edinburgh Council's predecessors must have thought of those problems in the past—to use Mr McFarlane's statement, the "C'moan—get aff" aspect. Edinburgh had a tram system in the old days. What changes in technology or appearance make trams attractiv...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

That is helpful.You made the point in your submission that the price of tram tickets would have to be right. I am sure that that will apply to everyone who uses the trams. Before the route has even been started, are you suggesting that, in some circumstances, it should be subs...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

23 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Okay.Another issue that I want to raise is the employment prospects of people in the north of Edinburgh, which seem to form a large part of the justification for the tramline. Your submission suggests that the tram"will create jobs suitable for low skilled workers resident wit...

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

In your written submission and your opening comments, you highlighted the importance of integration. You mentioned bicycles, but one principal objection to tramline 1 has come from cycle users. Can you explain that and say how the tram can improve the lot of bicycle users?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

It is the latter part of your answer that I was looking for. Those are interesting comments, which the promoters might take on board.You have given support for the overall route that is planned for tramline 1; however, you suggest that trams are best suited to high-volume usag...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

That is a fair comment. In your written submission, you talk about the ability to"negotiate sharp curves and steep gradients".We took a trip to Nottingham to see the tram system there, where sharp curves produce high levels of noise that are recognised as being of great annoya...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Doubts are expressed in Lothian Buses' submission that"there is little prospect that line 1 will achieve a substantial volume shift from car to tram."Neil Renilson already explained that to some degree. Given that we are talking about a circular route that is 2 miles across, t...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

30 Nov 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Yes. The comment made in your submission is that"there is little prospect that line 1 will achieve a substantial volume shift from car to tram."

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Alison Bourne identified figures that TIE released on potential usage at Craigleith and Lower Granton Road. She has checked those figures and found a disparity. On reading your submission, we find that 45 per cent of the economic benefits of the scheme will come, in essence, f...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Given the image of Edinburgh running 20-year-old ramshackle buses on bumpy roads, I am not sure whether my questions are now appropriate. That said, the TIE executive summary clearly states that one risk will be that tram and bus services are not well integrated. Work on the "...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

But why? If people living around tramline 1 do not use their cars at present for the type of journeys they would take on the tram, how will savings be produced, even in time?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

That is the very point that I am making. Today's evidence does not show that there will be a mode shift from car to tram on tramline 1.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Not from car usage. People are not going to go from car to tram.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

07 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

This might not be a question for Mr Buckman alone, but he has just suggested that the forecast cost and revenue that will be earned per tram kilometre is an inflated figure and an estimate for what the earnings might be four or five years from now. Will someone on the panel ad...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

You seem to be saying that, regardless of whether the tram can stand on its revenue forecasts, you want to go ahead in any case because of public transport policy. If there is a shortfall in revenue, who will pay? Will it be the Scottish Executive or the Edinburgh council tax ...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

In your written evidence, you state that a key aspect of national planning policy guideline 17 is "providing the most sustainable way to serve transport needs".Further to what you have already said, will you explain why you think that tram is the right choice for Edinburgh, as...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

Given the circular route that tramline 1 will take, I find it difficult to see where the savings—the figure of 15 to 20 per cent of car users—will come from. Do you envisage a wider car-user saving to the city of Edinburgh? Will the people who come into the city centre by car ...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

14 Dec 2004

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Preliminary Stage

That is the hub of my question. There is no formal park and ride and yet, to get the switch from car to tram, surely informal car parking will have to occur in the suburban areas.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

03 May 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

That would not interfere with the Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill Committee.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

21 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

I usually like to fire off having heard something from those who are asking questions, but I have a question that has been written down for me and I will stick to that. Given the bill's current compensation provisions, will Mr Rintoul please elaborate on whether an operator wo...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

21 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Could there be an added value, given what we have heard from Mr McIntosh about the pulling power of the tram?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

27 Jun 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

I think you suggested that there would be additional capital costs with single tracking, such as the provision of another tram.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

05 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Thank you.There was a discussion about moving the tram stop and I think that Mr Turnbull referred to a requirement for a right-angled turn to be applied on the tramline if that were to happen. What effect would that have on noise levels and on Mrs Joy's property?

Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

I am just a bit confused about the timings. It seems to me that when we were first given details of the route we more or less accepted timings as presented, but a lot of changes seem to have been made since then. That affects the overall operation of the tram system—the whole ...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Could I just stop you at that point? I want to ask about the additional power requirement. The tram will be stop-starting on the current route, compared with a straight-through route. Would there not be less power consumption if there were no interruption?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

I return to the time saving that you identified on the promoter's preferred section, which would have taken us outside of a minute. Will you remind me whether the requirement for an extra tram was identified at that point?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

13 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

My understanding is that the link with tramline 2 is a matter for the Edinburgh Tram (Line Two) Bill Committee.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

19 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Finally, from visiting the route and examining the make-up of surrounding areas, I believe that there are questions about the patronage assumptions that have been made. Do you want me to take that issue up with Mr Buckman, or do you want to pick up on the point that 30 per cen...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Will you clarify whether you advised the promoter on the full extent of the tram circuit or just on certain sections of it?

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Mr Dapré said that segregated running can sometimes be improved upon and that there is sometimes no problem with going for shared running. The objectors are referring to a very short stretch of Lower Granton Road at a point between their homes and the sea wall where the roadwa...

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

If there were a tram every 10 minutes, that would be easy to understand. I am saying that I suspect that an extra half minute between the trams would not make a great deal of difference to patronage.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

In that case, perhaps there should be a tram every five minutes.

Phil Gallie: Con Committee

28 Sep 2005

Edinburgh Tram (Line One) Bill: Consideration Stage

Professor Evans, thank you for an excellent practical explanation of the design process. You made the point that changes are always likely for a range of reasons. Is it true that the one immoveable object on this particular design is the fact that there must be a tram every se...