Committee
Procedures Committee, 03 Dec 2002
03 Dec 2002 · S1 · Procedures Committee
Item of business
Consultative Steering Group Report
We will try to include that very practical suggestion in the form of text that we find to replace the new paragraph to be inserted after paragraph 130. I think that I said before that we were discussing paragraph 130.The next issue identified in the report is the forward programme for parliamentary business, which most of us see a week or two in advance but which actually exists in embryonic form over a much longer period. That aspect has also been criticised. I suggest that, after paragraph 131, we add three new paragraphs to create greater transparency about the forward programming of business. They read:"We recommend therefore that an annual Parliamentary outline business programme is drawn up"—members should note the emphasis on "outline"—"and noted by the Parliament as an early item of business after the summer recess. It should indicate provisional time allocations for Executive, non-Executive Party, Committee, and all other identifiable Parliamentary business in the chamber. The indicative"—or outline—"programme should be regularly revised by the Bureau as the programme is developed in detail, with a major input from the Conveners' Group on behalf of committees.We recognise that items in the programme would have to be added, removed, or adjusted as the year proceeded, as priorities changed. For example, there will obviously be an element of unpredictability in allocating time for some Ministerial statements, and the completion of committee stages of Bills cannot be predicted absolutely. The object would be to bring a degree of certainty to the programming of Parliamentary business over much longer periods than is currently publicly available; to provide certainty for the Executive about time for its own programme; to ensure that the Executive programme is considered fully in the context of the priorities of the non-Executive parties, committees and backbenchers; and to provide as high a degree of transparency about Parliamentary business as possible. This work is likely to involve a great deal of effort by Parliamentary staff and the main contributors to the programme. It would require to be carefully planned and some extra resources may be required. We recommend that a detailed implementation plan for consideration is drawn up in due course by the Bureau, including any proposals for changes to the Standing Orders (Rule 5), to implement the proposals for a programme set out above by the start of, say, the Parliamentary year 2004-2005."One might say that those paragraphs are more about transparency than about power sharing, but the issue clearly relates to power sharing, because the more one knows about the forward programme of business, the more opportunity one might have to influence it in the debates that take place.I am not absolutely sure, but I believe that there is quite a degree of forward knowledge about what might be debated on such-and-such a date. I say that because the conveners liaison group, of which I am a member, frequently knows the dates and time allocations that are available for committee business. There is clearly a forward master plan; I do not know whether it is a secret, but it is certainly not openly divulged. I suspect that people are unhappy about divulging very much too far in advance, because that might make it difficult to change things. However, if we approached the matter from the other direction and accepted that the programme should be flexible, there could be more transparency, which in turn would make a contribution to power sharing. I seek members' comments on those suggested paragraphs.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
We are now quorate, so we will make a start. I welcome everyone to the 17th meeting this year of the Procedures Committee—do not all shout at once, "Is it on...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
The distinction is quite useful. Indeed, I did not realise that there was such a distinction about whether reports on legislation and other committee reports...
The Convener:
Con
We are not necessarily taking opinions for and against. I am simply trying to identify whether the committee is in broad agreement or whether it wants to ret...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
I would not mind some more examples. I do not want to hear further evidence, but I would not mind refreshing my mind on some of the work that committees do a...
The Convener:
Con
We took much evidence on committees meeting in private.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
Was that in relation to discussing bills?
The Convener:
Con
The distinction came from Mike Dailly's letter. Subsequently, the Presiding Officer's office has been involved in correspondence.
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
I appreciate many of the points that Donald Gorrie made. He will recall that, as Justice 1 Committee members, we have considered some stage 1 reports togethe...
The Convener:
Con
Do we agree that that is an item for discussion next week? We will leave that text on the table and consider whether to include it or any alternatives. That ...
The Convener:
Con
The next issue that emerged in evidence was whether some committees should not have Executive majorities. The text on that is in paragraphs 58 to 60. It is p...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
The issue is that the principle should be applied. The convener is right that the Scotland Act 1998 says that due consideration must be given to party balanc...
The Convener:
Con
I assume that, when those decisions are taken in the next session, the proportionality aspect of convenerships will be restored. As Fiona Hyslop knows, the d...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I have two thoughts. The first relates to paragraph 59. I apologise for my absence from a couple of meetings, which means that I have not been able to addres...
The Convener:
Con
We could mention the d'Hondt principle.
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I think that we should do so.
The Convener:
Con
I do not think that the principle was ever officially enshrined in any sense, but it is the convention that is followed. I am happy to work something into th...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I disagree with the final recommendation. The implication is that the system is not applied consistently.
The Convener:
Con
The committee convenerships were allocated on the d'Hondt principle at the beginning, but an additional committee was created.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
That should be spelled out.
The Convener:
Con
The new convenership was then allocated on a decision that I think was unanimous—I may be wrong—but took the balance away from what would have happened under...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I agree that if we have used d'Hondt, we should reflect that. I prefer d'Hondt but, whatever system is used, it should be applied consistently. When the Just...
The Convener:
Con
I should just add that, in our discussion last week, we spoke about whipping and included a paragraph on it, although we did not all agree on it. We will com...
Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Convener, you said that the decision to appoint a Labour member as convener of the Justice 2 Committee was unanimous. However, another part of the agreement ...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
I was desperately trying to remember the title of the alternative version to d'Hondt. D'Hondt has a built-in bias towards the biggest party, but there is a s...
The Convener:
Con
I will sum up. Subject to the possibility of making further amendments next week, we agree broadly with those additions. We accept that there is a role for p...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I want to use this section to make a point that I want to be included in the report. In this context, we are considering committees to be an extension of the...
The Convener:
Con
This is not a bad place to include that. It might be quite relevant.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
The point needs to be made somewhere, as it is important. Because I have missed some of the discussion, it is difficult to know exactly where that fits in.
Paul Martin:
Lab
I have one point to add. The suggested paragraph is excellent. However, when committees meet outside Edinburgh, they tend to do so in Glasgow City Chambers. ...
The Convener:
Con
In order to complete your thinking on that, you need to consider whether you are calling for more informal meetings, which would not be covered by the offici...