Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 09 Nov 2004
09 Nov 2004 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
Further and Higher Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I accept that. The ombudsman would obviously be a court of last resort to be used when internal procedures failed. Do you know of any past or recent cases in which students who wanted to take a matter further were frustrated simply because there was no measure in place or because they felt that their institution's internal procedures were not dealing with things effectively?
In the same item of business
The Convener:
SNP
Item 2 is divided into three parts, the first of which is oral evidence from the National Union of Students Scotland. I welcome Melanie Ward, president of NU...
Melanie Ward (National Union of Students Scotland):
We are grateful for the opportunity to come before the committee to give oral evidence and, I hope, to answer members' questions.We welcome the Further and H...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the NUS, which was one of the first organisations to propose a merged funding council, and which informed the position that the then Enterprise and...
Keith Robson (National Union of Students Scotland):
We disagree with that. We would like, and have long campaigned for, the ombudsman to have a role in relation to students. The present Universities Scotland s...
Melanie Ward:
One of the most important aspects of the proposal is that the ombudsman is completely independent and has no links to any institutions or to bodies that have...
Richard Baker:
Lab
Both those answers are helpful; they raise interesting issues that we should pursue.My next questions are on fees, an issue that features prominently in your...
Melanie Ward:
We have a copy of our alternative proposals with us. As I am sure the committee is aware, the Executive has carried out a separate consultation on the specif...
Richard Baker:
Lab
That would be helpful, because the charging of fees to medical students is a vexed issue. I am certainly of the opinion that there is no easy answer. You mad...
Melanie Ward:
Our policy on the issue is clear: we have a clear stance against any form of differential or top-up fees, whether the fees vary by institution or by course. ...
Richard Baker:
Lab
The Scottish students would not be paying any more than they would previously have paid.
Melanie Ward:
They would not at the moment, but we are the National Union of Students, so we would worry about that for any group of students, no matter where in the UK th...
Richard Baker:
Lab
On the last issue, I agree to some extent. I understand that the Executive said that it could not be sure that the accompanying documents would be legally bi...
The Convener:
SNP
We will have the minister in front of us in two weeks, so perhaps we can clarify that point with him.I have two points. First, we should take up Richard Bake...
Melanie Ward:
We would be extremely concerned if Scottish students were, in effect, squeezed out of places on any course, medicine or otherwise. The differential fees meas...
The Convener:
SNP
That would be extremely helpful.
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I want to talk about differential fees, which I discussed with Melanie Ward when she came to see me some time ago. Richard Baker accurately drew from her the...
Melanie Ward:
Our ideal would be for the measure to be removed completely so that the minister would not have a power to set differential fees for any course. There are a ...
Christine May:
Lab
In the event that ministers were not minded to do that and Parliament supported them, would you seek clarification in the bill about the degree of variabilit...
Melanie Ward:
That is a difficult question to answer. We have a clear policy on the matter. The question is this: If ministers and the Executive intended to charge only no...
Christine May:
Lab
You said that you would provide the committee with the note of the incentive ideas that you have given to ministers. Did that note take account of the very c...
Melanie Ward:
That issue does not form part of our current proposals, but we could certainly consider it. Obviously, it is difficult for the NUS to get complex information...
Christine May:
Lab
I was not trying to put you on the spot on the matter. I became aware only recently of how it complicates the issue of availability of qualified doctors to t...
Melanie Ward:
Since we made our submission, we have become aware of other issues. For example, some Scottish universities send their medical students to placements in Engl...
Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab):
Lab
I have a couple of questions before I get on to the subject of variable fees. In your submission, you say that you"believe that the extension of the Ombudsma...
Keith Robson:
At the moment, further and higher education students are not covered by the Scottish public sector ombudsman's remit. As a result, such an extension would gi...
Mike Watson:
Lab
I accept that. The ombudsman would obviously be a court of last resort to be used when internal procedures failed. Do you know of any past or recent cases in...
Melanie Ward:
Before the Universities Scotland system was introduced, students could take such cases only to the courts. Because that was extremely difficult, the average ...
Mike Watson:
Lab
Most of what needs to be said about differential fees has been covered by previous questions. However, in paragraph 6 of your submission you say that that yo...
Melanie Ward:
We talk about a lack of imagination because ministers told us that they did not consider other solutions to issues about cross-border flows or in relation to...
Mike Watson:
Lab
I have a couple of further points. I compared the NUS submission with those of the Association of University Teachers Scotland and the Educational Institute ...