Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 12 Jun 2001
12 Jun 2001 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Women's Offending
My view is similar to Christine Grahame's. Although we may want to undertake a wide-ranging inquiry, it would have to concentrate on issues such as alternatives to custody. If, as Mary Mulligan suggested, we wish to consider why women are in jail and explore the alternatives, we must be sure that there is something in its place. Such an inquiry would take an enormous amount of time. Although I am happy to undertake such an inquiry, what we are already doing prevents us from doing so. For example, it will take about a year to complete our inquiry into the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, which we were working on this morning. Mary Mulligan's suggestion is worthy of a main issue inquiry. If we can undertake smaller tasks in between, that is fine, but I would not want to give that inquiry anything less than our full attention at an appropriate time.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Item 1 is women's offending. The main purpose of the item is to report on our visit to Cornton Vale prison. Members have copies of a comprehensive report tha...
Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
Having seen Cornton Vale before Clive Fairweather's initial inspection, I think that the difference now is like night and day. I am sure that it was obvious ...
Mrs Mulligan:
Lab
The visit to Cornton Vale was my first visit to a prison and I was not sure what to expect. However, I recognise what Lyndsay McIntosh alluded to in that the...
The Convener:
Lab
My feelings are similar to those of Mary Mulligan. In evidence at a previous meeting, the Association of Visiting Committees for Scottish Penal Establishment...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I apologise for being late.The governor of Cornton Vale made the interesting comment that she never thought that the condition of the women could get any wor...
The Convener:
Lab
That is an important point. The reason why the number of male officers is high at the moment is that officers have been redeployed following the closure of t...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I have numbered the options 1, 2 and 3—in reverse order to that given in the paper. My first choice is identifying any specific issues where the Executive mi...
Mrs McIntosh:
Con
My view is similar to Christine Grahame's. Although we may want to undertake a wide-ranging inquiry, it would have to concentrate on issues such as alternati...
The Convener:
Lab
I have taken both those views on board. Christine Grahame's proposal was the third option from the clerk's paper, which is that of identifying specific issue...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
A couple of other questions spring to mind. It would be useful at another meeting to ask why more women are being imprisoned when the target was to have fewe...
The Convener:
Lab
I am happy for members to pick up such proposals. We presently have under way issues concerning Cornton Vale women's prison and what the future might hold. W...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Would not that come under the heading of why more women are being imprisoned? If the level of fines were raised and certain matters were no longer a criminal...
Mrs McIntosh:
Con
At our visit to Cornton Vale, Mary Mulligan and I were advised of the number of people who were making good progress when they left prison, but who had been ...
The Convener:
Lab
I am happy to concentrate on any of the issues suggested by Mary Mulligan and Christine Grahame. We just need to be clear about which road we want to go down...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
In fairness to the minister, we should make a list of questions so that he knows our agenda.That would lead us on to deciding whether we want to continue on ...
The Convener:
Lab
I will summarise the issues that are on the list. One question is why we are imprisoning so many women. We know that the number of women prisoners is at an a...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Does the Executive consider it appropriate that the number of male prison officers is being increased, as opposed to what would be a better practice—to have ...
The Convener:
Lab
We can examine that specific staffing issue.
Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
There is also the age profile of prisoners to consider.
The Convener:
Lab
Just a minute—we can also consider the alternatives to custody and the announcement on halfway houses. We have four matters to consider.
Ms MacDonald:
SNP
Sorry, convener. I noticed something about the age profile, on reading page 2 of the paper. I got an impression that a number of younger women are being impr...
The Convener:
Lab
So—we want to be asking questions about sentencing.
Ms MacDonald:
SNP
I want to ask about the age profile and about average sentences.
The Convener:
Lab
We will add to our list the age profile of women offenders and length of sentences. The point has been made that it is very difficult to do any kind of rehab...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I would like to make one last point, convener, which would follow the matter right through. What is the Executive's current policy on support for discharged ...
The Convener:
Lab
That is a good point. I think it was Margo MacDonald who asked the witnesses about what happens when Turnaround, for example, must service a much bigger popu...
Ms MacDonald:
SNP
The witnesses said that it could not.
The Convener:
Lab
That is right.Shall we close the list at that?
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Yes—that is fine.
The Convener:
Lab
We will give advance notice to the ministerial team on the questions that we want to ask them. We will look for a slot for that—after the recess—and we will ...