Committee
Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999
23 Aug 1999 · S1 · Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee
Item of business
Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)
Passing on an issue such as employment, when we are trying to develop a national anti-poverty strategy, will leave a hole in the strategy. The point of a national anti-poverty strategy everywhere in the world where it is applied is that it is an over-arching policy structure. It is the management of policy whereby each and every department and committee is subordinate to the policy.If we accept that we want to develop a national anti-poverty strategy we must accept that there will be times when we are working in other committees' areas. It is our job to convince the other committees that for the benefit of the country and for the eradication of poverty we need a national anti-poverty strategy, which means that some people have to put their egos in the bottom drawer for a while. If we are going to talk about a national anti-poverty strategy let us be clear about what it really means: it means effectively taking elements of power away from the Executive, committees and departments. That is the only way that the policy will work. If we do not do that the policy will end up with gaps in it. We must decide on that principle at the outset, drawing on the experience of those in the rest of the world who have implemented such a policy.
In the same item of business
The Convener opened the meeting at 14:04
The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran):
Lab
One member of the committee who is not yet present has indicated that he will join us later. I am also led to believe that Keith Raffan is quite ill.
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
The poor man is flat on his back at the moment. He sends his apologies.
The Convener:
Lab
I am sure that everyone sends him their best wishes.I formally open the meeting and welcome everyone who is here, particularly the members of the committee, ...
Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Everybody likes you, Margaret.
The Convener:
Lab
It is a shame that they are outside and not in the meeting.We have time to have a full and proper discussion today. Before I move on to discuss our prioritie...
Mr Quinan:
SNP
As I have already written to Martin to point out, I have a slight concern about the listing of our priorities. Fuel poverty is inseparable from a national co...
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I was going to raise exactly the same issue. In fact, the convener in her paper subdivided the national strategy into three strands. Fuel poverty is not ment...
The Convener:
Lab
I have an open mind on this subject and I am happy to put fuel poverty where you suggest, Alex. Given some of the Executive initiatives that are around, it m...
Robert Brown:
LD
It is also important to break the subject down into discrete, workable pieces that we can deal with, doing something useful, as opposed to the risk of having...
Mr Quinan:
SNP
On that point, Robert—and I will be firm on this—there is experience from elsewhere in the world, such as South Australia, the Netherlands, Portugal and Irel...
Robert Brown:
LD
If I may say so, convener, we should not be arguing about the detail of the strategy.
The Convener:
Lab
Can I stop you, Lloyd, as we are getting into the meat of the paper itself, and your point raises one of the big arguments in this field. We should try to ap...
Alex Neil:
SNP
Two areas that are central to any discussion about the causes of poverty and, more important, about how to eliminate poverty are unemployment and benefits. A...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
I apologise if I missed this issue being debated at an earlier committee meeting and it has already been discussed. One of my concerns early doors about this...
The Convener:
Lab
Those are two big points that come up in the debate about poverty all the time. Part of the reason that I have structured the paper in this way—and I did thi...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
It is important that the committee must set itself some guidelines as to the nature of its discussions, but we must also ensure that the achievements that th...
The Convener:
Lab
I am not suggesting that we should not define poverty and should not set standards as to how we measure our work and judge our effectiveness. What I am sayin...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I suggest that we move on through the paper. It is important to stress that, although this committee was the last to start, we are now meeting for the third ...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
May I say something before we conclude this part of the discussion? It is important before we start our work that we have a clear framework for the way in wh...
The Convener:
Lab
I now want to look at point 2 on the paper to propose priorities. As some of you may know, tomorrow afternoon the conveners of committees will meet to consid...
Alex Neil:
SNP
We have been talking about the guidelines for the work programme but we have not mentioned the time scale. Is this work programme for the next 12 months or f...
The Convener:
Lab
That is for us to decide today. I did not want to do so because I thought that that might have been pre-emptive. My view is that the work programme is for th...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
One of the suggestions was that we investigate suitable dates for the minister to come before the committee, especially to discuss some of the issues that we...
The Convener:
Lab
At our informal meeting, we were not sure whether we should get a written statement from the minister, which would mean that we could question her and not ju...
Bill Aitken:
Con
It is important that we have a written statement prior to such a meeting. The minister can then by all means speak to us to augment that statement. We would ...
The Convener:
Lab
That might be helpful across the range of subjects that this committee covers. We must think a wee bit about how we manage it. It might, for example, be wort...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
That can be raised when we discuss housing. I have been through a number of the summary responses to the green paper on housing and my concern is that, by th...
The Convener:
Lab
Immediately after this meeting, we will ask the minister for a statement, which we will have distributed to members of the committee. We will also request an...
Alex Neil:
SNP
I would like to follow on from my earlier point. The Secretary of State for Social Security made a statement yesterday on targets for the reduction of povert...