Chamber
Plenary, 27 Nov 2002
27 Nov 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Lifelong Learning
I thank the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and its advisers and clerks for a very fine report and for the fact that they have addressed disability issues—specifically those that affect people with autistic spectrum disorder and Asperger's syndrome.
People with ASD and Asperger's syndrome have what is termed a hidden disability. Although we have some fine practice in this country, there is no question but that we require many more support agencies and trained individuals to assist in the development of an equal and fair opportunity in life for the sufferers of ASD and Asperger's syndrome and their parents and carers.
I particularly commend to the minister pages 30 and 31 of the report and the recommendations at paragraphs 166 and 169. The recommendation at paragraph 166 is to
"review the arrangements for supporting learners with disabilities in light of the evidence received during this inquiry."
More important, the recommendation at paragraph 169 is:
"We recommend that Careers Scotland, as well as all publicly-funded learning providers, have clear guidelines to assist in early identification and referral for a range of special needs including dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorders."
I make some suggestions to the minister that are the product of a report that was written for Stevenson College on the 15-24 inclusiveness project, which is one of too few fine projects in this country. For far too long lifelong learning for people with ASD has been carried out in the home by their parents, who have also been on a journey of lifelong learning. Only with the creation of the Parliament was the issue highlighted to the extent that there is greater and highlighted public awareness of it. The principal issues are of transition. The transitions that sufferers of the syndrome make are, like learning, lifelong. The transition begins in the home, then we have to provide clear transitions to the nursery, to primary and secondary school, to college and university and into work. At present, apart from Stevenson College and the work of the Scottish Society for Autism, little is done in those areas.
Beaumont College in Lancaster is a college for people with not just ASD but other disabilities. Students there can get qualifications in transitional issues. I ask the minister to think seriously about recommending that the Scottish Qualifications Authority develop a programme of learning based around certificates in communication and supported living, in supported independent living and personal development and in vocational studies. The combination of those three qualifications for people with ASD would provide us with a great number of people who could assist in our work force. It is often said that people with ASD have a learning disability. I reverse that assertion: the reality is that we have an inability to educate people with ASD.
There is a baseline for my suggestions: the minister must reconsider providing full funding for the Scottish Society for Autism's excellent centre and school in Alloa. Without that, we cannot make progress.
People with ASD and Asperger's syndrome have what is termed a hidden disability. Although we have some fine practice in this country, there is no question but that we require many more support agencies and trained individuals to assist in the development of an equal and fair opportunity in life for the sufferers of ASD and Asperger's syndrome and their parents and carers.
I particularly commend to the minister pages 30 and 31 of the report and the recommendations at paragraphs 166 and 169. The recommendation at paragraph 166 is to
"review the arrangements for supporting learners with disabilities in light of the evidence received during this inquiry."
More important, the recommendation at paragraph 169 is:
"We recommend that Careers Scotland, as well as all publicly-funded learning providers, have clear guidelines to assist in early identification and referral for a range of special needs including dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorders."
I make some suggestions to the minister that are the product of a report that was written for Stevenson College on the 15-24 inclusiveness project, which is one of too few fine projects in this country. For far too long lifelong learning for people with ASD has been carried out in the home by their parents, who have also been on a journey of lifelong learning. Only with the creation of the Parliament was the issue highlighted to the extent that there is greater and highlighted public awareness of it. The principal issues are of transition. The transitions that sufferers of the syndrome make are, like learning, lifelong. The transition begins in the home, then we have to provide clear transitions to the nursery, to primary and secondary school, to college and university and into work. At present, apart from Stevenson College and the work of the Scottish Society for Autism, little is done in those areas.
Beaumont College in Lancaster is a college for people with not just ASD but other disabilities. Students there can get qualifications in transitional issues. I ask the minister to think seriously about recommending that the Scottish Qualifications Authority develop a programme of learning based around certificates in communication and supported living, in supported independent living and personal development and in vocational studies. The combination of those three qualifications for people with ASD would provide us with a great number of people who could assist in our work force. It is often said that people with ASD have a learning disability. I reverse that assertion: the reality is that we have an inability to educate people with ASD.
There is a baseline for my suggestions: the minister must reconsider providing full funding for the Scottish Society for Autism's excellent centre and school in Alloa. Without that, we cannot make progress.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
I ask those members who want to take part in today's debate to indicate that now. Already more members have requested to speak than I will be able to call. T...
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I thank all those who have contributed to the publication of the final report of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee on lifelong learning. I thank...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Does the member agree that knowledge extends further than purely the brain and that the hands and the physical traditions of craftsmanship also play a part?
Alex Neil:
SNP
Absolutely. I want to mention two other aspects of our report. One is citizenship and the need for our young people and others to have knowledge of the role ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I thank the convener for what was a model presentation of the report, if I may say so.
The Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning (Iain Gray):
Lab
I thank the convener of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for giving me this opportunity to speak. I congratulate the committee on its report, w...
Phil Gallie:
Con
The minister was right to boast somewhat about the rise in the number of youngsters who go to university. Alex Neil referred to the earning power of those yo...
Iain Gray:
Lab
We are proud of our participation rates in higher education. Not all the 50 per cent of young people who are in higher education are in universities—25 per c...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Will the new strategy take into account the findings of the review into higher education that is taking place at Westminster? Will the strategy be published ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
A number of different reviews and processes are going on. As Mr Monteith knows, the Scottish Executive is engaged in a separate review of higher education. I...
Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Although the conclusions of the Westminster review will apply in the rest of the United Kingdom, does the minister recognise that, if the Government in Londo...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I think that my reply to Mr Monteith made it clear that we will have to look at whatever changes are proposed for the rest of the UK and consider what conseq...
Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab) rose—
Lab
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Brian Fitzgerald—Fitzpatrick, I mean.
Brian Fitzpatrick:
Lab
I am obliged, Mr Stone. I do not think that it is any secret to anyone who read the committee's report or participated in its deliberations that the entitlem...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Indeed, not only funding but other aspects are important for taking forward the idea of entitlement. For example, the committee links entitlement to the SCQF...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am pleased to speak in support of a report that has received almost universal acclaim across the political spectrum and among stakeholders. The committee a...
Brian Fitzpatrick:
Lab
I am sure that Mr Ingram does not want to gloss over what was probably one of the most substantive areas of concern among committee members and the many orga...
Mr Ingram:
SNP
I am not denying that there are difficulties in the practicalities of implementing entitlement. I am suggesting that the Executive has not accepted the princ...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Churchill has been much in the news this weekend. Lifelong learning was particularly relevant to him. When he became Prime Minister at 65, he said that the w...
Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Mundell:
Con
Not at the moment.I pay tribute to fellow committee members and our clerking team. I pay tribute in particular to Judith Evans, who was heavily involved in d...
Andrew Wilson:
SNP
On the subject of agreements and disagreements, will David Mundell confirm his party's position on top-up fees? Does he agree with Mr Monteith's reported com...
David Mundell:
Con
I am sure that Mr Monteith will speak for himself when he participates later in the debate.My interpretation of the Executive response is that it, too, sees ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
That seems to be a reasonable aspiration for Scottish Enterprise. I cannot resist the opportunity to ask Mr Mundell whether what he says is a sea change from...
David Mundell:
Con
Mr Gray will find that, in the process of developing policy, individual members of the party suggested that approach, but it will not be the party's policy.W...
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
David Mundell's speech was thoughtful and provocative. I look forward to the views that were outlined in the Conservatives' opening speech being widely contr...
Phil Gallie:
Con
Does Tavish Scott take the same view of the relationship between science and the fishing industry?
Tavish Scott:
LD
Absolutely. That was a clever try. As Mr Gallie knows, in fishing it is not enough to assess just one piece of science. That is the problem with the stance t...
Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
I associate the Labour party with the thanks that the convener of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee expressed to the committee clerks and suppor...