Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 November 2010
10 Nov 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendments 23, 26 and 27 are designed to reflect the fact that, although the sale of alcohol is perfectly legal, the harm that it is doing to Scottish society means that it should not be treated in exactly the same way as any other commodity. This group forms a small part of the approach to tackling the more general need to change the culture of alcohol in Scotland by seeking to limit the alcohol industry’s ability to use reward and other schemes as a means of promoting the increased purchasing and consumption of alcohol and is justified by Scotland’s huge alcohol-related health and justice problems.
Amendment 23 seeks to restrict retailers’ ability to promote alcohol by making it available in combination with other products or services at a price lower than the sum of the prices of each product in combination. The original stage 2 amendment was withdrawn when it was pointed out that such a move could ban meal deals offered by certain retailers that encourage the consumption of food along with alcohol. In seeking to exempt combinations of products that are intended to constitute a meal and include a non-alcoholic product as an alternative to alcohol, amendment 23 would, if agreed to, allow Marks and Spencer meal deals and similar schemes to continue. I am aware that the word “meal” might be subject to flexible interpretation, but the fact that, in law, the word is taken at its everyday meaning should curb excessively creative interpretations. Certainly, amendment 23 would totally prevent the use of non-food incentives in such packages.
Amendment 26 seeks to ban coupons, products or services being given away or made available to the public at a nominal sum in order to promote an alcoholic drink or alcoholic drinks in general. Following representations at stage 2, this amendment seeks to allow up to 25ml of an alcoholic drink to be given away as part of a drinks promotion in off-licence premises to ensure that a person who wishes to try out a new whisky, for example, does not have to buy a bottle. Given that whisky can cost more than £30 a bottle, the original proposal would have resulted in very expensive tastings. Amendment 26 does not cover vouchers or samples that enable free sample testing in on-trade premises simply because the unit cost of any product is much less than when it is bought by the bottle and other means of promotion are likely to be equally effective.
Amendment 27 seeks to exclude alcohol from reward schemes in return for purchases and to prevent the provision of alcohol as a reward or benefit of such a scheme. Following stage 2 and comments by Helen Eadie and Richard Simpson that drew my attention to the original amendment’s unforeseen effect on the co-operative movement, this revised amendment exempts the payment of dividends related to purchases when the dividend holder is a member of the body that manages and controls the premises. Such a situation is totally different from that of holders of loyalty cards, which are simply a marketing initiative. The wording also makes it clear that the exclusion of such rewards for alcohol purchases does not extend to rewards offered by credit card companies, a concern expressed by Richard Simpson at stage 2, as those transactions are so removed from the point of purchase as to make any regulation overburdensome. Amendment 27 seeks to exempt support for charitable bodies and schemes such as computers for schools and has the positive support not only of the co-operative movement but of the Scottish Grocers Federation and, indeed, Asda, which supports all three amendments.
The amendments attracted a great deal of support in principle at stage 2, and my revised amendments now accommodate every criticism that was expressed at that time.
I move amendment 23.
Amendment 23 seeks to restrict retailers’ ability to promote alcohol by making it available in combination with other products or services at a price lower than the sum of the prices of each product in combination. The original stage 2 amendment was withdrawn when it was pointed out that such a move could ban meal deals offered by certain retailers that encourage the consumption of food along with alcohol. In seeking to exempt combinations of products that are intended to constitute a meal and include a non-alcoholic product as an alternative to alcohol, amendment 23 would, if agreed to, allow Marks and Spencer meal deals and similar schemes to continue. I am aware that the word “meal” might be subject to flexible interpretation, but the fact that, in law, the word is taken at its everyday meaning should curb excessively creative interpretations. Certainly, amendment 23 would totally prevent the use of non-food incentives in such packages.
Amendment 26 seeks to ban coupons, products or services being given away or made available to the public at a nominal sum in order to promote an alcoholic drink or alcoholic drinks in general. Following representations at stage 2, this amendment seeks to allow up to 25ml of an alcoholic drink to be given away as part of a drinks promotion in off-licence premises to ensure that a person who wishes to try out a new whisky, for example, does not have to buy a bottle. Given that whisky can cost more than £30 a bottle, the original proposal would have resulted in very expensive tastings. Amendment 26 does not cover vouchers or samples that enable free sample testing in on-trade premises simply because the unit cost of any product is much less than when it is bought by the bottle and other means of promotion are likely to be equally effective.
Amendment 27 seeks to exclude alcohol from reward schemes in return for purchases and to prevent the provision of alcohol as a reward or benefit of such a scheme. Following stage 2 and comments by Helen Eadie and Richard Simpson that drew my attention to the original amendment’s unforeseen effect on the co-operative movement, this revised amendment exempts the payment of dividends related to purchases when the dividend holder is a member of the body that manages and controls the premises. Such a situation is totally different from that of holders of loyalty cards, which are simply a marketing initiative. The wording also makes it clear that the exclusion of such rewards for alcohol purchases does not extend to rewards offered by credit card companies, a concern expressed by Richard Simpson at stage 2, as those transactions are so removed from the point of purchase as to make any regulation overburdensome. Amendment 27 seeks to exempt support for charitable bodies and schemes such as computers for schools and has the positive support not only of the co-operative movement but of the Scottish Grocers Federation and, indeed, Asda, which supports all three amendments.
The amendments attracted a great deal of support in principle at stage 2, and my revised amendments now accommodate every criticism that was expressed at that time.
I move amendment 23.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Alcohol etc (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with amendments, members should have with them the bill as am...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1A, 2 and 3.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
The amendments in the group will reinsert provisions in the bill that will prohibit the sale of alcohol below a minimum price, set that minimum price at 45p ...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
LD
I propose amendment 1A, which seeks to amend the Scottish Government’s amendment 1, on behalf of the Subordinate Legislation Committee, of which I am the con...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
A number of members have asked to speak and I am keen to get them all in. If members keep their remarks to three minutes, we should do so.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
It is disappointing that the debate has been dominated by one issue—minimum unit pricing—which the Scottish Government did, indeed, seek to portray as a magi...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The arguments for and against minimum pricing have been well rehearsed here in the chamber, at committee and elsewhere over the past years. In summary, we op...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order. There is far too much noise in the chamber.
Murdo Fraser
Con
Secondly, I say as gently as I can to the British Medical Association Scotland, for which I have a great deal of respect, that if it wants to be taken seriou...
Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I am sorry, but I have no time.I urge the Parliament to reject minimum unit pricing, as the Health and Sport Committee did, because we can find a better way.
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD)
LD
The accusation that parties did not study this matter with care is unfounded. The evidence that came before the Health and Sport Committee and the questions ...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP)
SNP
Our nation’s alcohol problem is probably the biggest public health challenge that we have faced in a generation. I recognise that some measures that will be ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am afraid that I must ask the next four speakers to confine themselves to two minutes each.
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am glad that Ross Finnie enunciated a number of the issues that I feel are important. That demonstrates the consensus that can be reached if proper analysi...
Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Dr Simpson
Lab
No, I will not. I do not have time in two minutes.Let us take a pensioner couple on an income of £200 a week who drink a bottle of vodka between them a week....
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Dr Simpson
Lab
For the SNP front bench to shout at me from a sedentary position will not help their argument. It never has.What about the 18 to 24-year olds? By how much do...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
If, as Nicola Sturgeon says, the Scottish Conservatives indulge in crude party politicking, surely we would not have supported the Government budget for the ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
We should not vote for Nicola Sturgeon’s amendments on minimum pricing for one main reason—Interruption. Members should listen first. If we are told that the...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Mike Rumbles
LD
It is not good enough for SNP members to criticise everyone else and to accuse us of not listening and getting the argument wrong. The only people in the cha...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
All law should be evidence based. I had the privilege of sitting with my colleagues in the Health and Sport Committee through the vast evidence that was take...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab)
Lab
I came to this issue as a member who was new to and totally unaware of the issues and who was willing to be persuaded in committee. The first thing that hit ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You must close, please.
Helen Eadie
Lab
The culture and attitudes of Scots need to be tackled in a holistic way, and—
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Mrs Eadie. I must stop you, I am afraid. I am sorry to interrupt, but we are very tight for time. I apologise to the two members whom I was unable...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
In many ways this has been a depressing debate, not just for me and the Government, but for people throughout Scotland who look to us to do the right thing a...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?