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Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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1999–2026
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Official Report

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Showing 52 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP Chamber
03 Sep 2009
Scottish Government's Programme
I intend to confine my main contribution to the patients' rights legislation that is proposed for the coming year, although I would like first to respond to a point that Mary Scanlon made in her speech. It is widely considered that alcohol is a greater problem in the Nordic st...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP Chamber
10 Dec 2008
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
I join my colleagues in congratulating Jamie Hepburn on securing this important debate. We all know a lot about the sad affront to human rights all over the world, but tonight I would like to draw to members' attention the thin veneer of civilisation that pertains in this coun...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP) SNP Chamber
24 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill
One of the criticisms that is sometimes made of the national health service is that, as a monopoly, it runs the risk of ignoring the genuine needs and concerns of patients. If we are being honest, we know that that has sometimes been the case.Other countries have attempted to ...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP Chamber
06 Nov 2008
Patients' Rights Bill
Members will know—perhaps to the point of boredom—about my background in the health service. However, I have not previously discussed my mercifully short contact with the health service as a patient. My only admission to hospital is still a cause of some embarrassment many yea...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP) SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
In the bill as amended at stage 2, under the heading “Patient rights”, section 1(2)(e), on page 2, states that health care is to“have regard to and respect for the rights and responsibilities conferred on patients”.What do you think about having that under the heading “Patient...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
I draw your attention to section Z1(2), which says that as well as restating existing rights, the charter may confer new rights and responsibilities on patients. That is a very broad power. What are the limits on the new legal rights that can be created using that power?14:30
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
You talk about the current intention, but we are talking about the law. If, under the provisions, patients were given new rights and responsibilities that were contradictory to the existing law, which would have primacy? Would it be the new rights and responsibilities that wer...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
I am sure that the Government has no desire to do that, but as a result of the way in which section Z1 is written, new rights and responsibilities could be introduced and, theoretically, they could conflict with rights and responsibilities that are enshrined in existing law.
Ian McKee: SNP Chamber
17 Apr 2008
Public Health etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Indeed. Edinburgh's proud record in the field continued under his inspired leadership. He is still alive and well today. I remember the huge chest X-ray campaign that took place in 1957, when I was a schoolboy. An astonishing 84 per cent of Edinburgh's adult population was X-r...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Is that section appropriate within the context of the rest of section Z1, which introduces new rights and responsibilities?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Do you have a view on how any rights conferred by the charter would be enforced against third parties in practice?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
The charter confers certain rights. Could they be enforced against third parties? Are they enforceable?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Do you mean even if there are new rights?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Does the Government intend any new patient right that is in the bill, such as the waiting time guarantee, to be in the charter along with all the other existing rights?
Ian McKee SNP Chamber
13 Jan 2011
Education
The point that I was making was that, often, Lord Foulkes intervenes from a sedentary position in a way that tends to spoil debates.If Labour believes that candidates cannot respond to issues that are raised with them before an election, it is not surprising that it lost the l...
Ian McKee: SNP Committee
27 Nov 2007
Legislative Consent Memorandum
In a sense, I do not mind. However, reading the background, it seems to me that the relevant national authorities have the power to set up trading schemes, so surely it is within their rights to set up different ones, otherwise we would have a UK-wide trading scheme. It might ...
The Deputy Convener: SNP Committee
22 Sep 2009
Public Services Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We have been apprised from various quarters of the fact that there continues to be concern about the power. Would it be possible to draw up a list of bodies that would not be affected by the power? I refer to bodies that have some scrutiny power over Government, such as the Sc...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP): SNP Chamber
04 Mar 2009
Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 1
I join the rest of the chamber in congratulating my colleague Anne McLaughlin on an outstanding maiden speech. I now realise what a great mistake it is to agree to speak in a debate for the SNP following her; I am sure that I will avoid doing so in the future.If I may adapt an...
Ian McKee: SNP Chamber
07 May 2009
School Discipline
After noting the Conservative interest, I looked up tawses on the net last night, and I have the details here if members wish to benefit from them.Attacks by pupils using weapons never seemed to occur in the days when a Lochgelly tawse was to hand. Is that the disciplinary pow...
The Deputy Convener: SNP Committee
02 Feb 2010
Crofting Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
A number of questions are proposed on section 15(5), which provides a power to prescribe circumstances when there is to be no entitlement to indemnity from the keeper in relation to the crofting register.As section 12(3) of the Registration (Scotland) Act 1979 provides an exte...
Ian McKee SNP Chamber
27 May 2010
Waiting Times
I will happily discuss those issues with Jackie Baillie when this debate is over.Above all, credit must go to that legion of doctors, nurses and other health workers—including, dare I say it, administrators and managers—who have worked their socks off to make the changes happe...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP) SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I have three questions. First, I gather from everyone’s submissions that you are all concerned about the possible distortions that could arise from the 12-week waiting time guarantee—for example, there is a worry that ensuring that someone gets an operation within 12 weeks mig...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Section 8(3)(a) deals with the arrangements that apply when a health board has exceeded the 12-week treatment time. It says that the health board“must not give priority to the start of any treatment where such prioritisation would, in the Health Board’s opinion, be detrimental...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I share Theresa Fyffe’s enthusiasm for a concept of mutuality in the health service, but how would that work in practice? What if the bill were to contain responsibilities for patients? Having worked in primary care, I am very well aware that some of the people in greatest nee...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
You agree, though, that setting out in a bill the requirement for people to keep their appointments and so on might have an effect contrary to improving the country’s health.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My third—and last—question, convener—
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is three.We know that many more procedures are being carried out totally in primary care and that general practitioners and people who work in primary care can do many more things than they used to be able to. In a previous evidence session, we were told that primary care h...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
But the bill places a duty on health boards to monitor each treatment time guarantee and to make the necessary arrangements for the procedure to happen somewhere else if it is not going to happen within 12 weeks. Surely, if that is a health board responsibility, it will involv...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am sorry if I am not making myself clear. I am talking about a treatment such as a minor surgical procedure that is carried out in primary care, which will now be subject to a 12-week waiting time guarantee if the GP and the patient agree to the treatment. As I understand it...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
But you are aware of all that.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
And you have discussed it with the Government.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
29 Sep 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Moreover, according to section 6(1), we are talking about“an agreed treatment”.
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP) SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It was: do the witnesses agree with him?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
You might be relieved to learn that I am not going to rehearse my stage 1 speech, convener. This is not a trick question—I am simply not familiar with her role—but I wonder whether Jacqueline Richardson will explain the mechanism for selecting and electing the people on her gr...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
So you are an arm of the board.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is helpful.I suppose that my next question, on the treatment time guarantee, is more for Melanie Hornett. It has been suggested in evidence that there could be a risk of managerial imperatives altering clinical imperatives slightly. For example, if a load of people needed...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
And management accepts that.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am not exactly certain what gaming is, I have to say.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
When certain targets were set for people to be seen at A and E, some areas developed the welcome nurse function. Someone would simply see the patient and say hello, which not only allowed the target for the time between someone entering the hospital building and seeing a profe...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is reassuring.How do health boards intend the provision to apply in primary care, where more and more procedures are taking place? For example, I know of primary care practices that carry out vasectomies; indeed, with the skill that is available in primary care, many more...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Although I accept that the bill does not cover mental health issues—and that that will be a matter for discussion—it is my understanding that it covers the other operations that I have mentioned. Although they are done on your behalf, if they were carried out in secondary care...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
But, in NHS Lothian’s opinion, if a GP offered to remove a sebaceous cyst, carry out a vasectomy or whatever, would the procedure be covered by the bill?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The cabinet secretary has said several times today that the treatment time guarantee applies to elective in-patient services. Does it also apply to day surgery, which is not an in-patient service?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is it your intention that the treatment time guarantee should apply to the same procedures if they are carried out in primary rather than secondary care settings?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am sorry, but your use of the term “in-patient services” confused me slightly.I turn to section 8, on breach of the treatment time guarantee. Section 8(3)(a) states that the board“must not give priority to the start of any treatment where such prioritisation would, in the He...
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I appreciate that. However, given that you include a specific provision in the section on breach of the treatment time guarantee, I should have thought that one might be included in the section on the treatment time guarantee.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
06 Oct 2010
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That would be helpful.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
How do you think the provisions would be used in the context of the existing national health service regime?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Which would take primacy?
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
So you do not have an official view.
Ian McKee SNP Committee
01 Feb 2011
Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill: After Stage 2
Thank you.
Ian McKee SNP Chamber
20 Jan 2011
Historic Environment (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I share the member’s concern about Castle Tioram and acknowledge that the bill does not address such matters. However, I support what is in the bill. The issue that Mr McGrigor raises could be the subject of the bill that Ted Brocklebank’s successor might bring to the next ses...
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Chamber

Plenary, 03 Sep 2009

03 Sep 2009 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Government's Programme
I intend to confine my main contribution to the patients' rights legislation that is proposed for the coming year, although I would like first to respond to a point that Mary Scanlon made in her speech. It is widely considered that alcohol is a greater problem in the Nordic states, where the price of alcohol is high, than it is in southern Europe, where the price is low. Mary Scanlon used that to claim that minimum pricing for alcohol would be useless. However, she may remember that it was shown in a Scottish Parliament information centre paper that was prepared for the Health and Sport Committee, on which we both serve, that southern Europe has a higher overall level of alcohol consumption and a greater incidence of liver disease than the Nordic countries. A minimum pricing policy for alcohol therefore certainly makes sense.

When I spoke in a debate on patients' rights last November, members who are present and alert might recall that I complained about the adequacy of the patient satisfaction survey that I was asked to complete after my admission to a maternity hospital many years ago, because many of the questions did not seem to apply to my condition. Although I agree that it was possibly unfair to expect any better—after all, the admission of a male patient, for whom breastfeeding is not high up the list of priorities, must be a bit of a rarity—it is important that the health service deals with people not as a queue of conditions needing treatment, but as individuals who have individual needs and special circumstances. With that in mind, I welcome the Government's commitment to introducing a patients' rights bill.

Over recent years, patients have been regarded in increasingly different lights north and south of the border. In England, both Conservative and Labour Governments have come to regard patients as being mainly customers of the health service. According to that philosophy, health care providers should compete for custom in a system that encourages patient choice. The discipline of the marketplace will then eliminate waste and drive up standards, according to that theory. Here in Scotland, both the previous Labour-Lib Dem Government and the current SNP Government have preferred to regard patients as joint owners of the health care system, having both the rights and the responsibilities of owners. Instead of encouraging people to compare providers in order that they can choose the most suitable one for their needs—an almost impossible task, by the way, in practice—our philosophy aims to involve people in making the most efficient use of local resources. The bill that the Government intends to introduce will go a step further by enshrining those rights and responsibilities so that we can progress further along the road to a truly mutual health service.

However, let me issue some warnings. In her opening speech in last November's debate, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing emphasised that Scotland is a socially and culturally diverse society, that patient rights extend across that diversity, and that health services must be tailored

"to provide accessible and appropriate services that are responsive to the individual needs, background and circumstances of people's lives."—[Official Report, 6 November 2008; c 12093.]

She was absolutely right. However, achieving that responsiveness will not be easy. That is the task that is before us.

We talk, for example, about the patient's responsibility for keeping appointments. It is still common for a patient who does not keep a hospital out-patient appointment to be put to the back of the queue or even, without any investigation, not to be sent another appointment. "If they can't be bothered to turn up, there can't be much wrong with them" is a common refrain. How often does anyone investigate the reason for the absence? If the complaint has cured itself and the person has simply forgotten to cancel the appointment, there is no excuse. However, sometimes the reason is transport problems or child care problems or it is that the person simply cannot use a calendar or cannot read. Patients come in all shapes, sizes and degrees of intelligence or learning. We are not truly providing a service that recognises diversity if we do not recognise and then overcome such problems. It is simply not true that people who do not turn up for appointments are always less in medical need than those who do. There are ways of providing an efficient service in such circumstances, but we do not always use them.

Another issue is the right of a patient to be involved in the management of his or her medical condition. Quite rightly, it is no longer good enough simply to assert that "Doctor knows best" and that the patient should get on with the course of treatment, of which the patient understands neither the benefits nor the risks. At the risk of being accused of exhibiting a degree of residual paternalism, I suggest that it is equally wrong to shove all treatment decisions on to the shoulders of someone who is patently unable to cope with them, especially if one motive is to escape some professional responsibility if things go wrong. One right for patients should be the right to benefit from the experience and judgment of the professionals who are looking after them. It is counterproductive to remove that right in the name of patient choice. Again, the service must be tailored to the needs of each individual.

So, should patients' rights be codified in legislation? Is not a patient charter an adequate enough safeguard of patients' rights? Initially, one might have some sympathy with such doubts, but I come down in favour of putting them on a legal basis for several reasons, including the following. In a large institution, such as a hospital or doctor's surgery—even a Parliament, for that matter—there is often a tendency for an us-and-them attitude to develop. The comradeship that is engendered by working together over many months and years almost inevitably tends to separate those who work in a place from those who use its services. In the national health service, it is extremely difficult to prevent that attitude from developing in a way that stops the professionals viewing patients as partners in a mutual concern. Codification in law of the rights of patients will remind health workers of those rights and will go some way towards restoring the balance that is necessary if true mutuality in the health service is to become a reality rather than an aspiration.

In the same item of business

Resumed debate.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan): SNP
The next item of business is continuation of the debate on the Scottish Government's programme.
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil): SNP
It gives me pleasure to be the first speaker in the afternoon part of the debate on the Government's legislative programme. The principal themes running thro...
David McLetchie: Con
I thank the minister for that most generous statement to the chamber. Will he confirm that not only was our record far superior to that of Labour and the Lib...
Alex Neil: SNP
We are only getting started.
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD): LD
Time to go on holiday again.
Alex Neil: SNP
Absolutely.We will not rest on our laurels. I will mention two of the measures that we will take forward in the legislative programme: our new housing bill a...
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): Lab
The minister will be well aware that the Labour team offered to come back early from the recess in order to pass legislation that would deal with repossessio...
Alex Neil: SNP
When the process will be completed will be up to the Parliament. Our ambition, which is, I think, shared by the Local Government and Communities Committee, i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: SNP
Unfortunately, you do not have more time, Mr Neil.
Alex Neil: SNP
I have therefore given members only a taster.
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate on the Government's programme.When a Government brings forward a programme for the year, we consider the...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): SNP
As the member knows, one of the Government's flagship policies was the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill. Does the hot air that he is emitting have anything to ...
James Kelly: Lab
We are more concerned with examining the programme—or the lack of it—that is before us this afternoon and coming up with solutions to Scotland's issues.Other...
Alex Neil: SNP
Does James Kelly not think that it is a disgrace that, under the Labour Government, the level of youth unemployment in the UK is now higher than it was under...
James Kelly: Lab
It is a disgrace that, at a time when we need investment in skills, the SNP is proposing a budget cut of £6 million for Skills Development Scotland next year...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
It is always a pleasure to participate in a debate with Alex Neil, and he is certainly on good form today.When this Government came to power in 2007, it spok...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Scanlon: Con
No—I want to cover the last two points.An increase in price reduces demand only when demand is elastic, and it is well documented that alcohol—and cigarettes...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP): SNP
I am delighted that a referendum bill is included in the programme for government. As someone who will in two weeks' time have been a member of the SNP for 3...
Mike Rumbles: LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson: SNP
I am in two minds about whether to accept the member's intervention, given the convoluted diatribe that we heard this morning, but I will give him a chance, ...
Mike Rumbles: LD
Does the member accept that, in the parliamentary democracy in which we operate, the people of Scotland have a democratic choice in 20 months' time to vote f...
Kenneth Gibson: SNP
People vote for political parties for a whole host of reasons. They do not vote for or against the SNP on that issue alone, as the member knows fine well.Wha...
Alex Johnstone: Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson: SNP
I yield to a "Coronation Street" watcher.
Alex Johnstone: Con
I am afraid that I am no "Coronation Street" watcher, but I do have a question. I have been very interested by the member's speech so far but, if for some re...
Kenneth Gibson: SNP
That will be a matter for future Parliaments and future referendums. My son will be 17 when the referendum is held. Is the member trying to say that, if this...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab): Lab
Scotland's justice system faces huge challenges. In the past few weeks, it has been in the international spotlight. It is vital that, during the rest of the ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green): Green
The arguments with regard to mandatory minimum sentences for knife crime are familiar and, indeed, were exercised in the previous parliamentary session. Such...