Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 11 November 2010
11 Nov 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Rural Out-of-hours Health Care Provision
One theme that came out of just about every evidence session at our committee, and again in the cabinet secretary’s response to our report, is that one size does not fit all, and out-of-hours cover needs to be tailored to the needs of each individual rural community, yet in reality some NHS boards seem to attempt to do precisely the opposite. Like the ugly sisters in the fairy tale, who try to squeeze their feet into shoes that manifestly do not fit, NHS boards try to force out-of-hours medical services that are designed to work in urban areas on to the countryside, where they patently do not meet the health needs of the different community.
I will take as an example what happened in Kinloch Rannoch. I do that not because that rural area represents all other rural areas—to claim so would be to fall into the one-size-fits-all trap—but because much of the evidence that the committee heard focused on that community and the petition that we received. I do not intend to go into every detail of the concerns of those who live there; I will draw out some relevant themes.
Because of a collapse in the existing out-of-hours arrangements, which we have heard about, NHS Tayside set about providing an alternative. Local people, not unnaturally, wanted the re-establishment of local GP cover, but they did not get it. NHS Tayside argues that suitable GPs did not come forward to offer a more local service and, in any case, the health board decided that it was impractical, because it would cost a staggering £556,468.77 per year, according to health board officials. That is more than half a million pounds, even if we forget the 77p.
One can understand how board members could come to a decision not to go ahead with such a service, given that figure, but let us look a bit more closely at how that figure was reached. The officials estimated that Kinloch Rannoch would require the services of four full-time equivalent drivers, as it is the board’s policy not to allow unaccompanied visits. Perhaps that is good policy when the GP who is on call has to make regular visits to tough housing estates, but it is a little bit over the top when we are talking about 800 hardy rural souls who usually generate no more than one out-of-hours call every three weeks or so. The truth is that no drivers are needed in any other rural areas, so why should they be needed in Kinloch Rannoch?
The board then said that the service would need 3.8 full-time equivalent doctors to cover an out-of-hours service because of the European working time directive and NHS employment policy. Again, that might be appropriate for an urban area, but is it required for a handful of requests per year? The board must be joking.
It seems as if someone at NHS Tayside was determined that a local GP out-of-hours service would never see the light of day. It is not as if many health boards, including NHS Tayside, show the same concern about the working hours of the doctors who staff the out-of-hours services that they run in busy urban areas. I found out from NHS Tayside that it employs GPs for that purpose without any knowledge or apparent concern about how many hours they have worked that week in their own practices. As the GPs are self-employed, they fall outwith the scope of the European working time directive, and there seems to be no desire to ascertain that information before allowing them to put in a shift or shifts for the health board. If the health boards can use those GPs—who might be working 50 hours a work in their own practices—to staff extremely demanding on-call rotas, why can they not devise a scheme to do something similar in places such as Kinloch Rannoch, where the workload is minuscule in comparison?
How might that be done? Our committee heard evidence on GPs in the Highlands who are contracted satisfactorily for an agreed lump sum, many times lower than that mentioned by NHS Tayside, to provide out-of-hours cover. They run a rota among themselves. Boards could devise innovative rotations of young doctors or pre-retirement doctors to cover needs in suitable areas. Telemedicine and the use of highly trained, locally based community nurses—whom we have talked about already—both have enormous potential if used wisely and with the on-going support of all concerned.
Advertisements for such posts could be made 10 times more attractive to potential applicants. Many of our rural areas are most beautiful and provide opportunities for country pursuits and an escape from the urban rat race, but those benefits need to be sold positively, not just by a tiny anonymous advertisement in the British Medical Journal.
Indeed, one size does not fit all, and a solution for one area will not always work elsewhere. The important thing is that the health board looks for a solution and takes on the local community as a partner in the search.
Having a locally based out-of-hours service also saves money and misery as a doctor who knows the patients can often avoid expensive ambulance journeys and hospital admissions. He or she knows what treatment a patient needs, what treatment they have had in the past, and what works and what does not work.
In summary, let me quote the two last sentences of the report:
“NHS boards should be given the responsibility for devising—and should be enabled to deliver—specific, sustainable, and often innovative arrangements whereby out-of-hours services meet the needs of individual communities. This should be delivered in consultation with those communities.”
Give them the responsibility and tell them to get on with it.
16:11
I will take as an example what happened in Kinloch Rannoch. I do that not because that rural area represents all other rural areas—to claim so would be to fall into the one-size-fits-all trap—but because much of the evidence that the committee heard focused on that community and the petition that we received. I do not intend to go into every detail of the concerns of those who live there; I will draw out some relevant themes.
Because of a collapse in the existing out-of-hours arrangements, which we have heard about, NHS Tayside set about providing an alternative. Local people, not unnaturally, wanted the re-establishment of local GP cover, but they did not get it. NHS Tayside argues that suitable GPs did not come forward to offer a more local service and, in any case, the health board decided that it was impractical, because it would cost a staggering £556,468.77 per year, according to health board officials. That is more than half a million pounds, even if we forget the 77p.
One can understand how board members could come to a decision not to go ahead with such a service, given that figure, but let us look a bit more closely at how that figure was reached. The officials estimated that Kinloch Rannoch would require the services of four full-time equivalent drivers, as it is the board’s policy not to allow unaccompanied visits. Perhaps that is good policy when the GP who is on call has to make regular visits to tough housing estates, but it is a little bit over the top when we are talking about 800 hardy rural souls who usually generate no more than one out-of-hours call every three weeks or so. The truth is that no drivers are needed in any other rural areas, so why should they be needed in Kinloch Rannoch?
The board then said that the service would need 3.8 full-time equivalent doctors to cover an out-of-hours service because of the European working time directive and NHS employment policy. Again, that might be appropriate for an urban area, but is it required for a handful of requests per year? The board must be joking.
It seems as if someone at NHS Tayside was determined that a local GP out-of-hours service would never see the light of day. It is not as if many health boards, including NHS Tayside, show the same concern about the working hours of the doctors who staff the out-of-hours services that they run in busy urban areas. I found out from NHS Tayside that it employs GPs for that purpose without any knowledge or apparent concern about how many hours they have worked that week in their own practices. As the GPs are self-employed, they fall outwith the scope of the European working time directive, and there seems to be no desire to ascertain that information before allowing them to put in a shift or shifts for the health board. If the health boards can use those GPs—who might be working 50 hours a work in their own practices—to staff extremely demanding on-call rotas, why can they not devise a scheme to do something similar in places such as Kinloch Rannoch, where the workload is minuscule in comparison?
How might that be done? Our committee heard evidence on GPs in the Highlands who are contracted satisfactorily for an agreed lump sum, many times lower than that mentioned by NHS Tayside, to provide out-of-hours cover. They run a rota among themselves. Boards could devise innovative rotations of young doctors or pre-retirement doctors to cover needs in suitable areas. Telemedicine and the use of highly trained, locally based community nurses—whom we have talked about already—both have enormous potential if used wisely and with the on-going support of all concerned.
Advertisements for such posts could be made 10 times more attractive to potential applicants. Many of our rural areas are most beautiful and provide opportunities for country pursuits and an escape from the urban rat race, but those benefits need to be sold positively, not just by a tiny anonymous advertisement in the British Medical Journal.
Indeed, one size does not fit all, and a solution for one area will not always work elsewhere. The important thing is that the health board looks for a solution and takes on the local community as a partner in the search.
Having a locally based out-of-hours service also saves money and misery as a doctor who knows the patients can often avoid expensive ambulance journeys and hospital admissions. He or she knows what treatment a patient needs, what treatment they have had in the past, and what works and what does not work.
In summary, let me quote the two last sentences of the report:
“NHS boards should be given the responsibility for devising—and should be enabled to deliver—specific, sustainable, and often innovative arrangements whereby out-of-hours services meet the needs of individual communities. This should be delivered in consultation with those communities.”
Give them the responsibility and tell them to get on with it.
16:11
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7190, in the name of Christine Grahame, on out-of-hours health care provision in rural areas.15:26
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
This has been a busy week for the Health and Sport Committee, with our regular meeting on a Wednesday morning, the stage 3 debate on the Alcohol etc (Scotlan...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
This morning?
Christine Grahame
SNP
I mean this afternoon. I am just checking that members are awake.I feel in particular for my colleague Helen Eadie, who rounds the week off with her members’...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I should have said at the beginning of the debate that we are short of time. The debate is oversubscribed, so everyone will need to stick to the time limits ...
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to report on what the Scottish Government and NHS boards are doing to improve out-of-hours health care provision, including for peo...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I will try not to repeat the excellent speech that our convener made, in which she covered much of the ground. Instead, I will try to amplify a little on som...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank members of the Health and Sport Committee for their extensive report and the clerks to the committee for all of their hard work and assistance. Altho...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
LD
I thank the convener of the Health and Sport Committee for taking us down memory lane, with her references to Dr Snoddie, Dr Cameron and Dr Finlay. Of course...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP)
SNP
One theme that came out of just about every evidence session at our committee, and again in the cabinet secretary’s response to our report, is that one size ...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab)
Lab
At the outset, I compliment Ian McKee on what was a very good speech.I found the inquiry into out-of-hours services in the NHS to be very interesting and, I ...
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Thank you, Ms Eadie. As a result of the extra minute that you have kindly given us, I can offer Nanette Milne and Mike Rumbles four minutes each.Members: No!
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Mind you, much more of that and they will not have any time left. Laughter.16:16
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I will be brief, Presiding Officer. The early problems with NHS 24 and its undoubted failures, which were exposed in the 2005 review, inevitably led to patie...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
I welcome the Health and Sport Committee’s report on out-of-hours health care in our rural areas. I will take this opportunity to focus on one specific issue...
Liam McArthur (Orkney) (LD)
LD
We started this short but perfectly formed debate with a tour d’horizon by the committee’s convener, Christine Grahame. She complained about the workload of ...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Not in my car.
Liam McArthur
LD
Not in the convener’s car.I accept entirely the need for issues of sustainability and cost to be addressed, as the committee notes in its report. The questio...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
In debates on anything remote and rural, I am generally able to give examples from the Highlands where the situation is worse than it is in the rest of Scotl...
Dr Simpson
Lab
The debate has been useful, not least in drawing together the individual experiences of so many MSPs. Indeed, that is a measure of the fundamental importance...
Shona Robison
SNP
I, too, thank members for their varied and useful contributions to what has been an interesting and consensual debate on an important topic that touches the ...
Mike Rumbles
LD
Will the minister give way?
Shona Robison
SNP
I will come back to the member’s point in a moment. In fact, go on—sorry.
Mike Rumbles
LD
My point was not about the reducing budget—that is incidental, although it is the reason why NHS Grampian has said that the changes I mentioned are happening...
Shona Robison
SNP
I understand that. As I understand it, NHS Grampian is at an early stage of consultation and there are no proposals on the table. Therefore, there is an oppo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Briefly, please, minister.
Shona Robison
SNP
Okay. I will write to the members whose points I have not responded to. Some other important points were made but, rather than take up any more time, I will ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you. I am sorry to have drawn you to a close.I call Ross Finnie to wind up on behalf of the committee.16:51
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD)
LD
It has been a useful debate and, as many have observed, there has been a great deal of consensus. Of course people have different views on how out-of-hours c...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order. There is far too much noise in the chamber.