Committee
Procedures Committee, 08 Oct 2002
08 Oct 2002 · S1 · Procedures Committee
Item of business
Standing Orders<br />(Conveners Group)
It is not about decision making. It is perfectly clear that in any organisation like a Parliament, there can be only one centre of decision making. Our standing orders say that that should be either the Parliamentary Bureau or the SPCB, as appropriate. The conveners liaison group plays a similar role to that played by the Queen in Westminster: it has the right to be consulted and to advise. The information that is brought by the conveners liaison group to the Parliamentary Bureau informs its decisions. The chairman of the group has a key role in that he can act as tic-tac man and pass information to the Parliamentary Bureau or the SPCB. That is how institutions function.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
Good morning, everybody. As it is 9.30, we will make a start. I will not tempt fate by commenting at all on the length of the agenda. We have two items to de...
Mr George Reid MSP (Conveners Liaison Group):
The consultative steering group was keen on conveners. It viewed the committees as the work force of the Parliament and considered, when drafting standing or...
In my judgment, having convened the conveners liaison group since its start, its most important function is that in proposed rule 6A.2.1(a):
"to consider and make recommendations in connection with the operation of committees".That allows something of a common view to emerge from among the convene...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
One or two of the proposed revisions say that matters will be decided jointly by the conveners group and the Parliamentary Bureau and that members can appeal...
Mr Reid:
SNP
Joint decisions relate specifically to committee travel and to members' travel outside the United Kingdom. Such matters will be batted backwards and forwards...
Elizabeth Watson (Scottish Parliament Directorate of Clerking and Reporting):
The way that the proposed standing orders are drafted reflects the present informal practice. In connection with travel requests for the location of committe...
Donald Gorrie:
LD
I have another question that is more philosophical, if that is the right word. For whom do the conveners attending the conveners group speak? Do they speak f...
Mr Reid:
SNP
That is a good question. I think that conveners would speak for their committees. That has largely been our experience.The position on a quorum is written in...
Elizabeth Watson:
My experience of the group is that it tries to work consensually. It is useful to have a spread of views from the parties, particularly when the conveners ar...
Mr Reid:
SNP
It is not unusual—in fact it is probably more common in the group—for points to be pursued on a cross-party basis if there is disagreement.
The Convener:
Con
I should of course have welcomed Elizabeth Watson to the committee—it was an oversight that I did not. Elizabeth is with us so often that it is natural to ta...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
I was not at the meeting in September 2000 when we discussed this matter and I do not necessarily want to unpick the agreements that have been put in place. ...
Mr Reid:
SNP
I am grateful that you are not starting the process of unpicking. That has gone on for a substantial period. As you have conceded, the group has worked conse...
The Convener:
Con
What is your view on the publication of a minute, as per the SPCB, or a résumé of decisions, as per the Parliamentary Bureau?
Mr Reid:
SNP
I have three points on that. The first is that the Parliamentary Bureau meets in private and much of the business with which the conveners liaison group deal...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
Why is it that in some situations the group reports to and is consulted on, when in others it decides? Why should it not just report and be consulted on? Tha...
Mr Reid:
SNP
I ask Elizabeth Watson to answer that because the question relates to specific issues about standing orders.
Elizabeth Watson:
I am thinking back to the discussions in the bureau and the conveners liaison group when the joint reference was formulated, at which I was present. The situ...
Mr Reid:
SNP
I can give an example of the ways in which consensual work and diplomacy can be advantageous to the Parliament. About a month ago, we had as many as nine bid...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I acknowledge that and applaud the record of the conveners liaison group. However, that leaves unanswered the question of whether the conveners liaison group...
Elizabeth Watson:
That responsibility lies with the Parliamentary Bureau.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
Why would we want to change that? Why not simply make a recommendation on the understanding that the conveners liaison group should be consulted and that its...
Mr Reid:
SNP
It is not about decision making. It is perfectly clear that in any organisation like a Parliament, there can be only one centre of decision making. Our stand...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
The strongest argument for the conveners liaison group is that it has worked and continues to work. I am concerned about what might happen in the future. As ...
The Convener:
Con
At the moment, if I remember, I invite you to go to the meeting if I am not going.There is a bit of a premium on my going, because I attend the CLG usually w...
Mr Reid:
SNP
The committee must be absolutely clear about the proposals. The Presiding Officer has the right to occupy the chair. When Mr Tosh or I deputise in that funct...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I repeat that I am a member of the Parliamentary Bureau and have seen the paper as part of my bureau membership. Having been a bureau member for the past 14 ...
Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have a simple question for George Reid. What would be the impact of our not approving the paper?
Mr Reid:
SNP
I do not know. It would be up to the conveners, in an inchoate and anarchic way, to decide whether to meet informally. If we go all the way back to the begin...
Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):
Lab
I apologise for missing the beginning of the discussion. I was not a member of the committee when the issue was first discussed and members will be pleased t...