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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Our second item is our third evidence session on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I regret that I have to announce apologies from Dr Gillian Smith of the Royal College of Midwives, who is unavoidably unable to be with us. As I said last week, bills by their nature ha...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab Chamber
11 Feb 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I begin by thanking the many stakeholders who submitted evidence on the bill, particularly the parents who generously shared with the committee their difficult experiences of losing a baby or a pregnancy. The evidence greatly assisted us with our deliberations and our understa...
The Convener (Duncan McNeil) Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning and welcome to the Health and Sport Committee’s first meeting in 2016. I ask everyone in the room to switch off mobile phones, as they can interfere with the sound system. You will notice that some of us are using tablet devices instead of hard copies of our paper...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The bill says that records must be kept of every burial and cremation, which might lead to, say, women who had lost their babies before 24 weeks being identified. Do you have any concerns about such information being available not just to certain people, but to the public in g...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We can perhaps raise that with the minister. We will move on to some of the issues that arise after the loss has happened and engagement has begun to take place. We then get into bureaucracy and form filling, to use negative terms. There are questions about time, and religiou...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We may need some clarification on that. The bill creates an offence of providing false or misleading information. Should it also specify whose role it is to explain the options on the forms for cremation and burial?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We also might have midwives who wish to help someone through the form but who would be uncomfortable about recommending or talking about a cremation or a burial. Given your response, do we not need clarity in and around who should be involved in filling in the form? You clearl...
Duncan McNeil Lab Chamber
11 Feb 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is not something that we looked at particularly, but the member has made a good point. The minister is here and she might wish to consider that further. The committee also welcomes the provisions in the bill that set out who may make arrangements for burial and cremation...
The Convener (Duncan McNeil) Lab Committee
08 Mar 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning and welcome to the 13th meeting in 2016 of the Health and Sport Committee. I ask everyone in the room to switch off their mobile phones as they can interfere with the sound system and with the proceedings, although some colleagues are using tablet devices instead ...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thanks, Willie. Does Ann McMurray wish to add anything to that?
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you. We will move on to questions that will, I am sure, pick up some of the points that have been made.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is the issue not more about communication?
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We are talking about dramatic situations. Of course, some people will be able to cope but, on reflection, do you not think that this is about asking the right questions and communicating better? Do you think that there was a wilful element in the neglect over the form? After a...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Does Ann McMurray have any views on that? No? It is hard to imagine that things would get to that stage, but it has to be taken into account.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Should the funeral directors’ role be set out clearly in the bill?
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Under the bill, the records will be available to the public, but the point is to ensure that the women in question are not identified.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
There are a couple of wee things that we would like to ask, for clarity. I am looking at page 6 of the committee’s briefing. We have looked at records with regard to funeral directors and cremation authorities. The bill explains that health authorities must keep a record of wh...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The information should not be separate; it should just be part of somebody’s medical record.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That would prevent our having an overall check and monitoring of the system. I am looking around me. Medical records are private and are not shared generally, so we would not be able to ensure that the public could be aware that the practice that the bill hopes to establish co...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am looking to you, as you have experience. If we tried to examine some of those records, would they be there? The bill says that they should be in the future, so we presume that they are not regularly established now. We can explore that.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Okay.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
There are no right answers to those questions, but that is as good an answer as we will get. Perhaps we will ask those questions. The bill says what should happen with record keeping if a woman loses her baby in the first 24 weeks of pregnancy. The catch-all in the bill is th...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is not a question that we can answer, because it might not apply to our given situation. However, the bill says that even once the decision is recorded there must be a waiting period—I think that Ann mentioned that that was very important—and that would be the rule. We can ...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
A waiting time might not matter. If there are no other questions, I thank Willie and Ann very much for their time. We are sorry that Cheryl Buchanan has not been able to come, but we obviously have her written evidence, which we will take into account when we complete our ini...
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
You have just put that on the record—it is a good, final word. However, Willie is determined that he will have the final word. Laughter.
The Convener Lab Committee
05 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thanks very much to you both for your contribution. I suspend the meeting at this point while we set up for our next evidence session. 10:38 Meeting suspended. 10:44 On resuming—
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you all for that. I say to each of the witnesses that we will cover a wide range of topics. Some of them will be applicable to you and you will feel that you can answer them. There is no pressure to respond to every subject if it is not in your area of interest, although...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Will you give us an example to help us understand the difficulties around that?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
This evidence session gives us an opportunity to ask about the different terms that are being used. For example, we have heard today about a campaign highlighting the extent of miscarriages in the United Kingdom, which I believe amount to 250,000. We have had references to “mi...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I know, but you said earlier that you provided services right across the board.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
With regard to the 12 to 24-week period, do we know how many women will find themselves in the situation that we are talking about? What are the national figures? How many families will find themselves affected by the legislation? We can always ask the minister that when she c...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We will come on to some of those issues.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Before we get on to that issue, which is about arrangements after the loss has happened, I want us to cover one other issue. Although we understand that the vast majority of such situations will happen in a hospital in the NHS, the issue of prison and residential settings has ...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Does Jim Brodie want to supplement that in any way?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is fine. Does anyone else want to comment?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Excuse me, but I want to give Tim Morris the floor. I will bring you in after that.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I would like to cover areas that have not yet been covered. They are, I suppose, some of the more sensitive areas. We understand that the vast majority of child deaths will be given burials; that was what you said earlier.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
There is a presumption now that ashes will be recovered in every case.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
In what circumstances could there be no recovery of ashes?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is happening now and there is every expectation that when ashes are requested they will be available, and there is nothing to prevent that happening other that what Willie Reid described.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Did I read in the briefing for this meeting—the written evidence—that other methods are now being developed?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The bill specifies that ashes should exclude metal. Should the bill specify what should happen in those circumstances? Tim—you are on a run. I will take others if they feel a need.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Are there any other comments? Does anybody wish to add anything to Tim’s response?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I think that we have covered all the points that we wanted to cover. I am looking at Bob Doris and some other members. If Bob has a wee point to make and is looking for some clarity, we will do that first and then ask the panel whether there are any areas that we have not cove...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do panel members want to say anything about areas that we have not covered?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is useful that you have put that on the record. You will know that more than one committee is looking at the bill. Obviously, we have a different focus from the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, which has focused on some of those issues.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is useful.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you for that. No one else wants to speak, so I thank you all for your time, for the evidence that has been provided this morning and for the written evidence that we have received. I hope that we can reflect it all in our final report. 10:50 Meeting suspended. 10:56 O...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We continue our evidence-taking session. I welcome to the committee Maureen Watt, Minister for Public Health, Dr Simon Cuthbert-Kerr, bill team leader, and Graham McGlashan, principal legal officer, all from the Scottish Government. I invite the minister to make opening remark...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you, minister. 11:00
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
NHS Lothian, which is doing a lot of good work in the area, raised the point that the proposed duty does not give it that flexibility. It feels that what is in the bill is a duty that it must act on at the six-weeks point. Another issue that has been raised in evidence is the...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
So that point will be addressed in the forms, but the bill will say that there is a requirement.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The earlier stage places a duty on everybody to wait until seven days after the decision has been made and to reflect on whether that decision is what they really want. It is not a very apt description, but it is almost a cooling-off period and it would impact on those whose r...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That is helpful. We heard this morning that a woman who suffers a pregnancy loss might be in a hospital environment for 24 or 48 hours. We know that there is one midwife in the whole of Scotland who has some training in the issues. The minister placed some responsibility for ...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Some of the other members might want to refer to it but we have had engagement with women parents who have suffered such a loss. They described their experiences of busy maternity wards. Perhaps Nanette Milne can describe some of that for us.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
How many women will benefit from the legislation? I suppose that I am asking how many people currently find themselves in such a situation, from pre-24 weeks right through to suffering pregnancy loss in the broadest terms.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I ask the question because the legislation will place a lot of requirements on a lot of different organisations in relation to record keeping, counselling and so on. We are creating demand, and there will be an expectation that people will be communicated with effectively and ...
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
You will have the opportunity to come back in. Rhoda Grant is next.
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Do you want to follow up on that, Bob?
The Convener Lab Committee
12 Jan 2016
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Speaking of this ever-longer form, should the bill specify how crematoria should dispose of unclaimed ashes?
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Committee

Health and Sport Committee 12 January 2016

12 Jan 2016 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
McNeil, Duncan Lab Greenock and Inverclyde Watch on SPTV
Our second item is our third evidence session on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I regret that I have to announce apologies from Dr Gillian Smith of the Royal College of Midwives, who is unavoidably unable to be with us. As I said last week, bills by their nature have to be very precise in their meaning and in the language that they use. As such, language or terminology may be used this morning in relation to the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill that those who are with us or those who are watching and listening to the proceedings may find upsetting. We apologise in advance if that is the case. It is not our intention to cause upset, but we have to work with the precise terms of the bill and how it is phrased. As we normally do with a round-table discussion, we will go round and introduce ourselves. I am the convener of the committee and the MSP for Greenock and Inverclyde.

In the same item of business

The Convener Lab
Our second item is our third evidence session on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I regret that I have to announce apologies from Dr Gillian Smith o...
Tim Morris (Institute of Cemetery and Crematorium Management)
I am the chief executive of the Institute of Cemetery and Crematorium Management, which represents burial and cremation authorities throughout the United Kin...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
Good morning. I am a member of the Scottish Parliament for Glasgow and the deputy convener of the committee.
Andrew Brown (National Association of Funeral Directors)
Good morning. I am the operations manager for Scotland and Northern Ireland for Co-operative Funeralcare and am representing the National Association of Fune...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
Good morning. I am the MSP for Aberdeenshire West.
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Good morning. I am an MSP for North East Scotland. In view of the fact that the National Association of Funeral Directors has stated that it has been involve...
Jim Brodie (National Society of Allied and Independent Funeral Directors)
Good morning. I have a slight stammer, for which I give apologies; I am sent to such meetings to slow things down. I am an independent private funeral direct...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
Good morning. I am the MSP for Edinburgh Western.
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Good morning. I am an MSP for Central Scotland.
Sandy Young (NHS Lothian)
I am head of service for spiritual care and bereavement for NHS Lothian. In particular, my bereavement casework has for many years been to help those bereave...
Caroline Pretty (NHS Lothian)
Hello. I am bereavement service co-ordinator for NHS Lothian, and I work with a particular focus on women’s and children’s services.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I am a Highlands and Islands MSP.
Natalie McKail (City of Edinburgh Council)
I am a senior manager in the City of Edinburgh Council and have responsibility for the Mortonhall improvement programme. I work to the chief executive’s work...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I am the MSP for Edinburgh Northern and Leith.
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I am an MSP for the Highlands and Islands.
The Convener Lab
Thank you all for that. I say to each of the witnesses that we will cover a wide range of topics. Some of them will be applicable to you and you will feel th...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
I thank the witnesses for their useful written evidence. I will try to break it down into different areas and will start with the disposal of remains from pr...
Caroline Pretty
There is a huge range of circumstances of loss in the period up to 24 weeks. The current guidance from the Scottish Government on disposal of losses under 24...
Sandy Young
It would also create particular difficulties for us. The bill focuses on what we would think of as minimum good practice for early loss, not best practice. I...
The Convener Lab
Will you give us an example to help us understand the difficulties around that?
Sandy Young
An example would be the group of bereaved families in difficult circumstances who have made difficult decisions about the termination of a pregnancy for medi...
Caroline Pretty
The worst-case scenario would be that, in the event of a stillbirth, we would be left with no means of arranging a funeral if the woman who experienced the s...
The Convener Lab
This evidence session gives us an opportunity to ask about the different terms that are being used. For example, we have heard today about a campaign highlig...
Sandy Young
Neither I nor Caroline Pretty is a clinician, so—
The Convener Lab
I know, but you said earlier that you provided services right across the board.
Sandy Young
As far as NHS Lothian is concerned, at the point at which a lady stops being a gynaecology patient and becomes a maternity patient—in other words, the beginn...
The Convener Lab
With regard to the 12 to 24-week period, do we know how many women will find themselves in the situation that we are talking about? What are the national fig...
Sandy Young
My knowledge is not current but, the last time I looked, I found that 2 to 2.5 per cent of pregnancies that get to the beginning of the second trimester end ...
Bob Doris SNP
Last week, the committee took evidence on the issue from impacted parents. I wonder what the reality is for national health service staff across the country ...
Caroline Pretty
It is a significant challenge to ensure that midwives in particular are up to date, well informed and as confident as one can be in such a difficult and sens...