Committee
Health and Sport Committee 12 December 2013
12 Dec 2013 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Child Poverty
Good morning and welcome to the 35th meeting in 2013 of the Health and Sport Committee. I have stopped giving the usual warning about people using BlackBerrys—although I point out that phones and BlackBerrys should be switched off—and I now make an announcement about people using tablets. Some members are using tablets and other devices to refer to their papers.I welcome Kevin Stewart and Jackie Baillie.Under the first and only item on the agenda, we return to the issue of child poverty. Members will recall that, in October, we carried out some visits in Glasgow that were hosted by Save the Children, and in November we held a round-table discussion on the subject. We should bear that in mind and raise with the ministers who have joined us this morning some of the questions that came up in those sessions.We have two Scottish ministers with us today—two for the price of one.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Duncan McNeil)
Lab
Good morning and welcome to the 35th meeting in 2013 of the Health and Sport Committee. I have stopped giving the usual warning about people using BlackBerry...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Is that a compliment?
The Convener
Lab
I do not know how I will differentiate between the two of you and whether I will have to say, “Minister Margaret” or whatever. We will see how we get on.I we...
The Minister for Housing and Welfare (Margaret Burgess)
SNP
Thank you for the opportunity to be here to discuss child poverty in Scotland. I am joined by my colleague Aileen Campbell, the Minister for Children and You...
The Convener
Lab
We move directly to questions. Rhoda Grant has the first question.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Will you provide a couple of practical examples of what you are doing to tackle child poverty?
Margaret Burgess
SNP
I mentioned a number of things that we have done. Key elements of the strategy are maximising household incomes and increasing children’s life chances and we...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
You mentioned that the social wage is one of your policies to tackle poverty. Is it not the case that those who are in poverty are not paying council tax or ...
Margaret Burgess
SNP
I think that there are additional benefits. I talked about the number of people in work who are now in poverty. Had the council tax reduction scheme that we ...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
We are concentrating on child poverty. You talked about performance indicators. How are you going to measure your performance?
Margaret Burgess
SNP
We are developing a framework, which has gone to the ministerial advisory group. It will be part of the refreshed strategy and it links with other frameworks...
Paul Tyrer (Scottish Government)
I will take you back to September, when we published our annual report, and I will then talk about where we are now. After that, I will talk briefly about wh...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I am more interested in how you are going to measure your performance. I know that you report annually. I want to know whether the measurements are going to ...
Paul Tyrer
I will just be a minute. In September, we said that we recognise that the case study approach that the annual report takes has limitations and that we want t...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
It is helpful, but I would like to know whether the outcomes that you mention will be soft outcomes or measurable outcomes. What data will they be measured a...
Paul Tyrer
They must be measurable and must use the Scottish Government’s national-level data, for the most part. That will enable everybody to see how well we are doin...
The Convener
Lab
I presume that you have seen the evidence from our round-table session, which talks about the need to have a clearer sense of progress, the need to set out h...
Margaret Burgess
SNP
There has been some measurement of what we are doing. We set up the ministerial advisory group to advise ministers on how best to proceed, and that group—whi...
The Convener
Lab
This is no criticism of you, minister. I am talking about why, historically, that work was not part of the efforts to tackle child poverty and poverty in gen...
Margaret Burgess
SNP
The Deputy First Minister champions that. It is up to all ministers, however.
Aileen Campbell
SNP
As Margaret Burgess indicates, there is cross-portfolio interest in the issue. At Cabinet, I sit within the education team. A number of the people who gave e...
The Convener
Lab
The point that I am making is that, when everybody is responsible, no one is clearly in charge.
Margaret Burgess
SNP
I point out that the Deputy First Minister chairs the ministerial advisory group on child poverty. The issue is an absolute priority for the Government. That...
The Convener
Lab
Perhaps it should have been the cabinet secretary who came here this morning—I do not know how we arrived at our choice.
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I understand that she is at another committee.
The Convener
Lab
That is fine.
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Margaret Burgess is the vice-chair of the advisory group, and I attend it as well. That reflects the wider, cross-portfolio interest that we in the Governmen...
The Convener
Lab
I accept that. I do not mean any offence to the ministers who are with us this morning, but the person who fights for a slice of the budget is in the Cabinet...
Paul Tyrer
I can speak only for myself. I have been in post for a year, and one of the priorities for me in coming in was to see if we could encourage more robust repor...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I do not necessarily agree with the way in which you have characterised things, convener. Child poverty has reduced over the whole course of devolution. To s...