Chamber
Plenary, 19 Dec 2001
19 Dec 2001 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Budget Process 2002-03: Stage 2
With respect, I wanted to clear off the recommendations, so that everyone knows what we are saying about them, before I let others in on the debate.
On the sixth recommendation, I am happy to consider breaking down further the Executive's administrative costs to include any additional information that is available on pay, information technology and special advisers.
I am happy to accept the committee's seventh recommendation, which is to improve the targets in the annual expenditure review and draft budget document. Indeed, in a previous life I might have made such a suggestion—perhaps I did. Targets must be more focused on the core business of the Executive. We all agree on that.
On the eighth recommendation, the full joining-up of information on the high level figures that we publish to the amounts that organisations actually spend on the ground must be a long-term aim for any Government in this electronically driven age. However, it will take time to join up those systems and processes to ensure that the information is consistent.
On the ninth recommendation, my predecessor agreed that we would provide a separate section on the modernising government fund in next year's annual expenditure review. As allocations are based on a bidding process, we might not be able to provide all the information that the committee seeks. Nonetheless, I am happy to provide it with what is available.
I agree with the committee's 10th recommendation, which is that we must continue to make progress on equality. We have engaged with a number of groups, such as Engender, in an attempt to work our way through the difficulties of linking policy development and resource statements. I am happy to continue to listen to what any group has to offer in this field, but I believe that progress will remain slow for some time.
On the 11th recommendation, I am happy in principle to provide information on past performance, but I doubt whether the draft budget document is the proper place for such information. That document is already large and the inclusion of additional material will make it bigger and more complex.
On the 12th recommendation, I am happy to review the Executive's co-ordination of responses to subject committees. On the 13th and 14th recommendations, I note the committee's suggestion on budgets for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and Audit Scotland.
For the future, I intend to build on the themes of both my predecessors. In the Finance Committee report, I want to see a finance process that is inclusive, open and effective. The process must involve close working with the Finance Committee, the subject committees, local authorities and other Government agencies. Local authorities are key partners in delivering a change in Government services and they are essential for delivering the Executive's priorities. However, if the processes include only those bodies, the administration of Parliament and other parts of government will have failed. We must continue to strive to include the wider Scottish public to ensure that their views on how the budget should be spent are heard. Like my predecessors, the deputy minister and I will undertake a series of budget roadshows that will explain the Scottish budget to the Scottish people and will seek their views on priorities and budget allocations.
However, being inclusive is not an end in itself. I want everyone to be able to contribute. To ensure that that can happen, we need to improve the type of information that we produce. The draft budget document gives us the basic information from which we can make improvements. We must move collectively towards the target of measured outcomes. As I said, that will not be easy, but in the short run we might be able to produce output measures. However, we should be in no doubt that our target is to produce more meaningful documentation and information to allow the outcomes to be measured. By doing that, we can ensure that we are spending the Scottish public's money wisely.
This has been my first speech as the Minister for Finance and Public Services. Perhaps I took too many interventions. I apologise for running over time. It has been most enjoyable and most educative—that is a new word for "Roget's Thesaurus"—to learn more about the Finance Committee and how it works. I have enjoyed this experience immensely. I continue to enjoy my role as Minister for Finance and Public Services and I look forward to meeting Finance Committee members frequently.
On the sixth recommendation, I am happy to consider breaking down further the Executive's administrative costs to include any additional information that is available on pay, information technology and special advisers.
I am happy to accept the committee's seventh recommendation, which is to improve the targets in the annual expenditure review and draft budget document. Indeed, in a previous life I might have made such a suggestion—perhaps I did. Targets must be more focused on the core business of the Executive. We all agree on that.
On the eighth recommendation, the full joining-up of information on the high level figures that we publish to the amounts that organisations actually spend on the ground must be a long-term aim for any Government in this electronically driven age. However, it will take time to join up those systems and processes to ensure that the information is consistent.
On the ninth recommendation, my predecessor agreed that we would provide a separate section on the modernising government fund in next year's annual expenditure review. As allocations are based on a bidding process, we might not be able to provide all the information that the committee seeks. Nonetheless, I am happy to provide it with what is available.
I agree with the committee's 10th recommendation, which is that we must continue to make progress on equality. We have engaged with a number of groups, such as Engender, in an attempt to work our way through the difficulties of linking policy development and resource statements. I am happy to continue to listen to what any group has to offer in this field, but I believe that progress will remain slow for some time.
On the 11th recommendation, I am happy in principle to provide information on past performance, but I doubt whether the draft budget document is the proper place for such information. That document is already large and the inclusion of additional material will make it bigger and more complex.
On the 12th recommendation, I am happy to review the Executive's co-ordination of responses to subject committees. On the 13th and 14th recommendations, I note the committee's suggestion on budgets for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and Audit Scotland.
For the future, I intend to build on the themes of both my predecessors. In the Finance Committee report, I want to see a finance process that is inclusive, open and effective. The process must involve close working with the Finance Committee, the subject committees, local authorities and other Government agencies. Local authorities are key partners in delivering a change in Government services and they are essential for delivering the Executive's priorities. However, if the processes include only those bodies, the administration of Parliament and other parts of government will have failed. We must continue to strive to include the wider Scottish public to ensure that their views on how the budget should be spent are heard. Like my predecessors, the deputy minister and I will undertake a series of budget roadshows that will explain the Scottish budget to the Scottish people and will seek their views on priorities and budget allocations.
However, being inclusive is not an end in itself. I want everyone to be able to contribute. To ensure that that can happen, we need to improve the type of information that we produce. The draft budget document gives us the basic information from which we can make improvements. We must move collectively towards the target of measured outcomes. As I said, that will not be easy, but in the short run we might be able to produce output measures. However, we should be in no doubt that our target is to produce more meaningful documentation and information to allow the outcomes to be measured. By doing that, we can ensure that we are spending the Scottish public's money wisely.
This has been my first speech as the Minister for Finance and Public Services. Perhaps I took too many interventions. I apologise for running over time. It has been most enjoyable and most educative—that is a new word for "Roget's Thesaurus"—to learn more about the Finance Committee and how it works. I have enjoyed this experience immensely. I continue to enjoy my role as Minister for Finance and Public Services and I look forward to meeting Finance Committee members frequently.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
We now proceed to the Finance Committee debate. Des McNulty, the convener, is introducing the committee's report on stage 2 of the budget process.
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
I thank the Parliament for this opportunity to open the debate on the Finance Committee's stage 2 report on the 2002-03 budget process. Since the commencemen...
Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):
SNP
I thought that Des McNulty would appreciate a break in his 20-minute marathon. Does the member agree that one problem with taking evidence around the country...
Des McNulty:
Lab
Alasdair Morgan is absolutely right. We must improve members' awareness of the budget to help them to perform their role more effectively. That can be done b...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The next speaker is Alasdair Morgan. The time limit on speeches from the back benches will be five minutes.
Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):
SNP
I am sorry that Des McNulty sat down ahead of his allotted time, as I thought that he was just getting into his stride.I welcome to their new posts the conve...
The Deputy Minister for Finance and Public Services (Peter Peacock):
Lab
Alasdair Morgan has been there.
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
Indeed, although I did not have anything to defend. Laughter. That comment can be taken in two ways.For Mr McNulty, the post of Finance Committee convener ho...
George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):
LD
The member says that we are discussing only half a budget. Will it ever be possible for the SNP to make proposals about how it would spend that half before d...
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
There are two ways to respond to George Lyon's point. I could respond in a party-political knockabout way—the spirit in which the point was made. In that res...
Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
First, in common with other members who have spoken, I have thanks and plaudits to give out. I will start with the clerking team and the adviser to the Finan...
Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
At least they are consistent.
Mr Davidson:
Con
If Mr Wilson says so.We have to ask ourselves, what is the budget process supposed to do? What is it supposed to deliver? The budget process is the Parliamen...
Andrew Wilson:
SNP
Would not the focus on outcomes be enhanced if the Parliament and the Executive had control of not just some expenditure, but all expenditure and of not no t...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I thought the member was giving his speech later. I was hoping that he might entertain us by pursuing the stuck-record approach to what goes on. If the Parli...
Andrew Wilson:
SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way twice. I concur with his position on the one-size-fits-all policy for Scotland. Why is he so keen to apply a one-s...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I say to Mr Wilson that such comments become a bit tedious. I do not doubt that we will have a full-blown debate on that the next time he initiates a debate....
Alasdair Morgan rose—
SNP
Mr Davidson:
Con
I am nearing the end of my speech. Do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Yes.
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
I hear the member's comments and to some extent I agree with them, but how do they fit with the comments of his leader, Mr McLetchie, who said when the under...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I think that Mr McLetchie's full comment was that if the Executive could not decide what to do with the underspend, it should give the money back until it ma...
Iain Smith (North-East Fife) (LD):
LD
David Davidson has shown why he thinks that two and a half hours to debate £21 billion of spending is a waste of time. He has wasted the past 13 or 14 minute...
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
I realise that we will get the answer in the next 10 minutes, but will the member put forward any different ideas or are the Liberal Democrats joined symbiot...
Iain Smith:
LD
Does the member mean that I should look in the dictionary to find out the meaning of "coalition"? When one is in a coalition, one shares priorities and works...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
The member seems confused. He seems to think that we are here to lay out our manifestos for the next election. Des McNulty's motion says: "That the Parliamen...
Iain Smith:
LD
In due course I will make some comments about the report's recommendations. The Finance Committee is charged with looking at the Scottish Parliament's budget...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Has the member read the report?
Iain Smith:
LD
Yes. I have read the report. We have more money for rural communities. We have improved public services through schemes such as the promotion fund to deal wi...
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP) rose—
SNP