Chamber
Plenary, 09 May 2002
09 May 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Europe Day
I thank Irene Oldfather for getting this matter on the agenda. I spent 24 years in the European Parliament and, oddly enough, was nominated for the unelected Parliament by none other than Harold Wilson. I do not know whether he ever regretted that. I was then an elected member from 1979 until I came to the Scottish Parliament. I can hardly describe the enormous thrill I felt the first time I went into the European Parliament and saw the nations that had been at war all sitting not in nationalities but in political groupings. That thrill is still with me any time I even think about those experiences.
I was a child of the war with two brothers in great danger, one of whom was missing for three and a half years. Because we lived near a synagogue, there were at my school in Glasgow Jewish children who had been rescued from the gas ovens. To me, the war was the most dreadful thing. Throughout my childhood, my mother jumped when the doorbell rang. I became a passionate European because I could see that it was only by giving up some of our sovereignty together for joint purposes that we could possibly end war, which of course we have managed to do.
I am an enthusiastic European and that is how it will always be. I have seen enormous changes. The main change, I suppose, was the European Parliament's desire to acquire more powers. Enormous powers were added during my period there. The Parliament got powers of initiative, powers of compulsory consultation and powers to cross-examine the Commission, although it does not yet have power to select the commissioners.
When people used to tell me, "The European Parliament's just a talking shop," I used to get quite irritated. Who are we comparing it with? Certainly not with Westminster, where I also spent quite a number of years on two occasions. Rather, the European Parliament is a consensus Parliament. Our enemies being our Governments on the one hand and the Commission on the other hand, we tended to move together quite a lot on such matters as discrimination, human rights, the environment and the third world.
If we did not get our way, we raised the matter again a year later and started again with the same argument. We usually got our way. The European Parliament always gets its way in the end. We cannot say that about Westminster, because if a proposal is defeated in Westminster that is it for that session of Parliament. In Europe, one just waits a year and starts all over again.
One of my causes was a code of conduct for substandard tankers. I did not succeed the first time: I succeeded by getting enough supporters with other dangerous waters beside me with my dangerous waters in Shetland, Orkney and the Minch.
The initiative of which I am proudest is the Erasmus scheme. When I chaired the culture committee, we got the Erasmus scheme through. In that, I drew from Scottish experience, because we used to send our students to other universities throughout Europe, such as Bologna, Valladolid, Paris and Leiden. I just thought, "Why not dip into the Scottish experience and open it up for all European students?"
Glasgow became the city of culture when I was chairman of the culture committee, but I assure members that that was nothing to do with me—it was genuinely a decision by the English minister. It was to be Britain's turn to have the city of culture. Bath, Oxford, Glasgow and Edinburgh were in the running. Glasgow got it, the English minister said, because its policy was all about the future and the other cities were talking only about the past.
We also got recognition of the deaf sign language of each EU member state through the Parliament. However, not all the countries have honoured that. Only three or four have done it, and Britain is not one of them.
In my opening speech in this Parliament, I urged that we follow the committee system of the European Parliament. I am happy to say that we have done that. Largely speaking, our committee system is the jewel of the Parliament. All parties are represented and everybody's contribution is valued if they have something interesting to contribute. That is the way that it is in Europe.
The criticisms of the secrecy of the Council of Ministers that we always made in the European Parliament remain more or less unchanged. We had all sorts of practical plans, such as the chairman of the appropriate committee being allowed in when the appropriate subject was on the agenda, but we never got in.
On Britain's clout for Scotland, I disagree. Fishing is the example that springs to mind. In that and many other things, Britain is the country that keeps turning down European money because it will not match it. If Scotland were, as I want it to be, a normal member of the EU, Britain would actually have more votes.
I was a child of the war with two brothers in great danger, one of whom was missing for three and a half years. Because we lived near a synagogue, there were at my school in Glasgow Jewish children who had been rescued from the gas ovens. To me, the war was the most dreadful thing. Throughout my childhood, my mother jumped when the doorbell rang. I became a passionate European because I could see that it was only by giving up some of our sovereignty together for joint purposes that we could possibly end war, which of course we have managed to do.
I am an enthusiastic European and that is how it will always be. I have seen enormous changes. The main change, I suppose, was the European Parliament's desire to acquire more powers. Enormous powers were added during my period there. The Parliament got powers of initiative, powers of compulsory consultation and powers to cross-examine the Commission, although it does not yet have power to select the commissioners.
When people used to tell me, "The European Parliament's just a talking shop," I used to get quite irritated. Who are we comparing it with? Certainly not with Westminster, where I also spent quite a number of years on two occasions. Rather, the European Parliament is a consensus Parliament. Our enemies being our Governments on the one hand and the Commission on the other hand, we tended to move together quite a lot on such matters as discrimination, human rights, the environment and the third world.
If we did not get our way, we raised the matter again a year later and started again with the same argument. We usually got our way. The European Parliament always gets its way in the end. We cannot say that about Westminster, because if a proposal is defeated in Westminster that is it for that session of Parliament. In Europe, one just waits a year and starts all over again.
One of my causes was a code of conduct for substandard tankers. I did not succeed the first time: I succeeded by getting enough supporters with other dangerous waters beside me with my dangerous waters in Shetland, Orkney and the Minch.
The initiative of which I am proudest is the Erasmus scheme. When I chaired the culture committee, we got the Erasmus scheme through. In that, I drew from Scottish experience, because we used to send our students to other universities throughout Europe, such as Bologna, Valladolid, Paris and Leiden. I just thought, "Why not dip into the Scottish experience and open it up for all European students?"
Glasgow became the city of culture when I was chairman of the culture committee, but I assure members that that was nothing to do with me—it was genuinely a decision by the English minister. It was to be Britain's turn to have the city of culture. Bath, Oxford, Glasgow and Edinburgh were in the running. Glasgow got it, the English minister said, because its policy was all about the future and the other cities were talking only about the past.
We also got recognition of the deaf sign language of each EU member state through the Parliament. However, not all the countries have honoured that. Only three or four have done it, and Britain is not one of them.
In my opening speech in this Parliament, I urged that we follow the committee system of the European Parliament. I am happy to say that we have done that. Largely speaking, our committee system is the jewel of the Parliament. All parties are represented and everybody's contribution is valued if they have something interesting to contribute. That is the way that it is in Europe.
The criticisms of the secrecy of the Council of Ministers that we always made in the European Parliament remain more or less unchanged. We had all sorts of practical plans, such as the chairman of the appropriate committee being allowed in when the appropriate subject was on the agenda, but we never got in.
On Britain's clout for Scotland, I disagree. Fishing is the example that springs to mind. In that and many other things, Britain is the country that keeps turning down European money because it will not match it. If Scotland were, as I want it to be, a normal member of the EU, Britain would actually have more votes.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The final item of business today is a members' business debate on motion S1M-3032, in the name of Irene Oldfather, on Scotland and Europe day.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament is proud to mark Europe Day as a celebration of the founding of the European Union (EU); endorses the fundamental principles of the EU as...
Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):
Lab
This has been a very exciting day for the Parliament and I will say a little bit more about that in a moment. I thank the business managers of all parties in...
Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Does Irene Oldfather agree that it is not just the duty of the Parliament to spread awareness of Europe throughout Scotland, but the duty of the Government?
Irene Oldfather:
Lab
I absolutely agree with that and I am sure that the minister will take that point up in his summing-up.Our Parliament has been the voice of Scotland today, c...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Irene Oldfather for getting this matter on the agenda. I spent 24 years in the European Parliament and, oddly enough, was nominated for the unelected...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Who could forget that it was a Conservative Government that took the United Kingdom into the Common Market in the early 1970s? Europe day, if any, is a time ...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Irene Oldfather on securing the debate. She is absolutely right to say that first the European Coal and Steel Community, then the European Eco...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
No they are not.
Mr Raffan:
LD
I said that many of them are, but there are more to come. Foolish men will be swept away—particularly those on my right.A week tomorrow I will be in Rosyth t...
Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, congratulate Irene Oldfather on helping the Parliament to mark Europe day through this evening's debate. I pay special tribute to Winnie Ewing, who i...
Irene Oldfather:
Lab
The member will no doubt be interested to know that this afternoon's "Newsdrive" has covered Europe day.
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
I am delighted to hear that. One can always trust the BBC's "Newsdrive".Last week, I started to read Primo Levi's "If This Is A Man", which is the author's s...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Irene Oldfather not only on today's debate, but on her boundless enthusiasm in promoting Europe. Although many of my colleagues and I do not a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Several members have added their names during the debate to the list of members who wish to speak. I am about five minutes short, so although I will accept a...
Motion moved,
That, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended until 6.00 pm.—Irene Oldfather.
Motion agreed to.
Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Irene Oldfather, who is the convener of the European Committee, for securing the debate. She always keeps an eye on such anniversaries, which keeps t...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I, too, pay tribute to Irene Oldfather for so skilfully securing a debate on Europe day on 9 May. It is a delight to work with Irene, with our colleagues on ...
Ben Wallace:
Con
Will the member give way?
Helen Eadie:
Lab
I am on my last two seconds.When the people of Scotland go on their summer holidays this year and start to use euros, they will really understand the differe...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
I endorse whole-heartedly every word of Irene Oldfather's motion. I would also like to record my appreciation for the power of work that a number of people d...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am pleased that the consultative steering group looked to Europe in establishing our Parliament. We are elected proportionally using the same constituency ...
The Deputy Minister for Finance and Public Services (Peter Peacock):
Lab
As Irene Oldfather and other members have said, today is a day for celebrating a remarkable achievement and the vision and commitment of our forebears in set...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The minister will appreciate that one of the debates on the future of Europe is about where executive power should lie, that is, whether it should lie with t...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I will draw some of those points out as I proceed.The forthcoming enlargement of the EU, which we support strongly, will increase the population of the EU by...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I wish to make progress.Scotland has influence in the European Economic and Social Committee and in the Committee of the Regions. It also has influence in lo...