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Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

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1999–2026
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Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
26 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Fundamentally, I agree with the Government that there needs to be a significant shift in the way that we deal with sexual offences cases. Those cases are predominantly what the High Court is dealing with now, and the situation is alarming, with the rate of sexual offences agai...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I will speak to amendment 109 and also to amendments 110 to 113, 116 to 121, 125 and 126, which are all consequential amendments. I will not go through them all. The amendments relate to the creation of a sexual offences court. We all acknowledge the growth in the volume of s...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
There has not been a change of heart. I am arguing that there can still be specialism and trauma-informed practice. I will go on to talk about and welcome some of the fundamental changes that the Government has made, with the Lord Advocate contributing to those. There is no co...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
26 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
My understanding, from speaking to Rape Crisis Scotland, is that its big concern—as you know, it has many concerns—is delay in the courts. If you believe that delays will come down as a result of this change, I understand and sympathise with that view. However, you would have ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 114 would ensure that cases dealing with the crime of murder may not be heard in the sexual offences court. The Law Society said: “Amendment 114 in the name of Ms McNeill maintains the jurisdiction of the High Court of Justiciary for charges of murder. We consider t...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
It is hard to know how to respond when there has not been a full debate on my amendments. First, I made an error when I spoke to amendment 157. I do not fully understand why my amendments on the separation of the High Court and the sheriff court have been separated in the grou...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
A number of these amendments seek to amend elements of the sexual offences court, including what it will be able to do and what crimes it will be able to deal with. On amendment 157, my intention and how things have come out might be two entirely different things, as is often...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
04 Dec 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
My primary concern—as you might have read—about the setting up of a specialist court is that I do not believe that the Government can fix the problem of rights of audience, which it accepts is a problem. I put that specific question to the Government at stage 1, with regard to...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
26 Mar 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I find Sharon Dowey’s contribution very helpful, because it mirrors my feelings about something that sounds like quite dramatic and necessary change but which involves lots of issues that remain unresolved. I maintain that a lot of the specialist judicial management can be don...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I was going to ask about that issue, so I will carry on where Rona Mackay left off. Emma Bryson spoke about the difference between theory and practice and asked what the practice will be. What will the law be? What is it that we are legislating for? That is what I am thinking...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
10 Feb 2005
Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
You are so generous, Presiding Officer. I can hardly believe that the Lord Advocate has now served in post for five years—that shows how quickly time passes.Unlike the Opposition parties, I think that the debate serves an important purpose. Part of our job is to scrutinise wha...
The Convener: Lab Committee
12 Nov 2003
High Court of Justiciary
That is a fair point in the sense that we found the visit interesting because we will consider the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill, but I am sure that the Justice 2 Committee also found the visit interesting. It was clear that the people at the High Court are sp...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
You may remember that, in relation to a previous set of my amendments, I said that the same approach could be achieved by having a sexual offences division of the High Court and a sexual offences division of the sheriff court, rather than creating a new court. Rape, for exampl...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
06 Dec 2007
Summary Justice Reform
It feels as if there is a fortnightly afternoon session with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice—he must like our company. Although the debate is not well attended, it is important and I welcome the chance to discuss summary justice.It was as far back as Jim Wallace's time as ju...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
11 Nov 1999
Subordinate Legislation
This is an important and historic moment for the Scottish Parliament, although the number of members in the chamber might not suggest that. Today we will make a decision on the Maximum Number of Judges (Scotland) Order 1999, acting on the Lord President's request that there sh...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Good morning, Lord Advocate. Thank you for being so vocal on the importance of doing something in Parliament about the scandalous increase in the number of sexual offences cases. I am interested in the mechanics of the specialist court. You and the Lord Justice Clerk have m...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
17 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill
This is the most difficult bill that I have dealt with in my time on the Criminal Justice Committee. It deals, in its entirety, with wholesale reform of the criminal justice system, overturning years of established systems that fit together, so it is not simple to pick apart. ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
31 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
My next set of questions is about the specialist court. Your written evidence has been really helpful. If we get this right, it could be transformational. You will be aware that the provisions in the bill do not mirror Lady Dorrian’s recommendations, in a number of ways. The...
The Convener: Lab Committee
07 Feb 2001
Glasgow Sheriff Court (Visit)
Thanks, Margo. That is a fair reflection of what I saw on both occasions when I attended the court, and describes the pressure that the court is under.There are 21 courts at Glasgow sheriff court, which is about the busiest court in Europe. Each court has its own programme and...
Pauline McNeill: Lab Chamber
14 Jun 2001
International Criminal Court (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
As we said in our stage 1 report, we felt that we were under a bit of pressure to complete the report. However, we understood the reasons for the time scale. We want to be one of the first 60 countries to ratify the Rome statute.It would not be possible to take more evidence t...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
29 Jan 2004
Supreme Court
I think that DCAf—the Department for Constitutional Affairs—is the most interesting acronym that I have heard for a while. For ages, every time I heard lawyers talk about it, I wondered what they were talking about. It meant something else to me.We have been asked to consider ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thanks for that. This is my final question. The proposal to have a specialist court was mentioned earlier. Lady Dorrian recommended that such a court be part of the High Court, but that is not what is in the bill. I am not too clear in my mind what that court would be. It woul...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
01 Apr 2025
Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I agree with Liam Kerr’s remarks about the volume of work that the Criminal Justice Committee has undertaken, and I hope that we have done justice to the bill. The Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill does two distinct things. ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
28 Jun 2022
Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 76 seeks to ensure that, if an extension is requested to already-extended time limits and the application is granted, the judge or the court must state “the reason for the application, and ... whether the application was made by the prosecution or the defence.” Ame...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
29 Mar 2023
Court Maintenance Backlog
I thank Liam Kerr for bringing this important subject to the chamber for a members’ business debate. If he does not mind, I will focus almost exclusively on court delays, because Labour members have been very critical of the current situation. I took an interest in court delay...
The Convener: Lab Committee
02 Feb 2005
Subordinate Legislation
No, the distinction is that without the pilot, the High Court would be duty bound to consider all options when considering whether to remand a person to custody. On application by the accused, the High Court is duty bound to consider a tag. That is the provision that the High ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
17 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That has muddied the waters—for me, anyway. Murder cases should be in the High Court, so I do not understand. Obviously, they can be prosecuted in either court, but once we lose that provision from law, we will never go back to it—that is for sure. I have a question for Kat...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I think that I have demonstrated, in the Parliament, that I share the view that the cabinet secretary expressed in her last comments about how the system has failed women and girls and how much work we have still to do. What we are debating now, however, is whether the Govern...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
07 Oct 2025
Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 61 says: “Where an image of physical evidence is to be treated in criminal proceedings as if it were the physical evidence itself, either party in the proceedings may request that the physical item be produced in court.” It also says: “Where a request is made und...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
10 Jan 2024
Management of Sexual Offences Cases
It is clear that there is a need for change—I am absolutely clear about that. I want to give some context to my question. You have made the case for a specialist court, but I am interested in where it would sit in the hierarchy—excuse my terminology, but that is the way that I...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
08 Jun 2022
Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I thank Katy Clark and Brian Whittle for their amendments. This group of amendments is important because we are being asked to agree to far-reaching time limits for all cases, and that will have a significant impact on victims and accused persons. There were significant delay...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I welcome the amendments that the Government has lodged in this group and whole-heartedly support them. I will address my amendment 270. Rape is among the most serious of crimes and if we are potentially making a fundamental change to who hears rape cases in our criminal just...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
20 Apr 2006
Civil Justice Reform
I have written to Cathy Jamieson, as I did to her predecessor, Jim Wallace, to ask for more attention to be paid to reforming of our civil justice system. Like other members, I whole-heartedly welcome Cathy Jamieson's announcement that she will lay out a plan to reform the sys...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
14 Sep 2006
Criminal Proceedings etc (Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The bill proposes reform of the summary justice system, which is the part of the justice system that the vast majority of people who become involved in the system go through. Unlike the Bonomy High Court reforms, which we debated in the Parliament—it does not seem long ago tha...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
15 Dec 2021
Prosecution of Violence against Women and Girls
Cabinet secretary, we had a really interesting and good exchange with David Fraser last week on what a specialist court is. Are you satisfied that, in legislating to create a specialist court—as I understand you have to do—it would not look like we were downgrading sexual offe...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I will rehearse the same argument as I rehearsed last week. I do believe that there should be a specialist element but, as I have argued from the beginning, it can be done in a different way. The bill will create a sexual offences court for all solemn sexual offence cases, whi...
Pauline McNeill: Lab Committee
28 Nov 2000
Glasgow Courts (Visit)
It was useful and interesting to see what is, I think, the country's biggest sheriff court. It was all new to me; I had not seen such a court in operation before. I arrived a bit late, so I missed one of the courts—the intermediate diet court, I think—but I caught up with it l...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
14 Jun 2001
International Criminal Court (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
It is apt that we debate the principles of the international criminal court on the day after the momentous occasion of President Mbeki's addressing the Parliament and reminding us of our international obligations. We should all be enthusiastic about such a historic proposal fo...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
08 Jun 2022
Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
There has been a lot of discussion in the committee about conducting court business by electronic means. By necessity, that approach allowed us to conduct court proceedings during the pandemic, and I acknowledge that the Government has said that it wants to monitor its effecti...
The Convener: Lab Committee
08 Oct 2003
High Court of Justiciary (Reform)
Item 6 on our agenda concerns the bill to reform the High Court of Justiciary, the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill. Members will recall that they agreed to invite Professor Christopher Gane to be one of our advisers on the bill. I now notice that he is here—I co...
The Convener: Lab Committee
24 Mar 2004
Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 191, in my name, is grouped with amendment 171. If amendment 191 is agreed to, I will not be able to call amendment 171.Amendment 191 relates to section 67 notices, which allow the Crown by leave of the court to include evidence after the time limit has passed if the...
The Convener: Lab Committee
02 Feb 2005
Subordinate Legislation
It is important that we distinguish between the two separate provisions. The issue was rehearsed in the debates on the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2004. Previously there was mandatory detention in murder cases, but that is no longer the case. If the court is ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Thank you very much for your insights. I know that you have been involved with this for a long time, and I thank you for that, too. I was surprised to hear you talk about a two-tier system. Could you elaborate a bit more on that? In my lines of questioning to the Lord Advocat...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
24 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
You described a hierarchy of courts, in which you do not see the sexual offences court as provided for in the bill. Section 46 of the bill says that, “on cause shown”, a case can be transferred from the sexual offences court to the High Court or the sheriff court. Does that sp...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
24 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The other witnesses might want to address my follow-up question. I am trying to understand the proposed legislation before us and all the possibilities. It is possible to create a specialist court, as proposed in the bill. We can decide where that is in the hierarchy, but the...
The Convener: Lab Committee
02 Feb 2005
Subordinate Legislation
No, we have moved away from murder and rape. For everything else, where a sheriff has remanded a person to custody, that person has to go through a procedure to apply to the court to ask whether they would be allowed out into the community if they were tagged. That is what we ...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
10 Jan 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I suppose that the fine line that you mentioned is about where cases go. Currently, they go to either the High Court or the sheriff court. You said that, in the case of the High Court, an advocate depute has a single case and you talked about the cost of that. Will that fine l...
The Convener: Lab Committee
08 Oct 2003
High Court of Justiciary (Reform)
Yes. For the record, I should say that, although our official visit was to a sheriff court, we started off at a procurator fiscal's office. Michael Matheson is absolutely right: informal discussions allow us to get to the root of issues and to understand them. If members feel ...
The Convener: Lab Committee
02 Feb 2005
Subordinate Legislation
It did to me, because all murder and rape cases are already dealt with at the High Court. I presume that when judges consider whether to grant bail in a murder case, they have to take into account what you outlined. It took a while for us to have that point explained and you a...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
02 Apr 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
You can achieve the same thing. A High Court judge—Lord Bracadale, for example—who sits in the High Court could sit in a newly created sexual offences court and preside over a sexual offence case or a rape case. They would have to be trauma informed to do so, but they would no...
Pauline McNeill Lab Chamber
16 Sep 2025
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I do not have much to add, but I want to make one point in relation to the appointment of sheriffs. However you view this, it is important to note that there is a distinction. Sheriffs who are appointed to the High Court as temporary judges sit as High Court judges, and they w...
The Convener: Lab Committee
16 Nov 2005
Family Law (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 2
If members do not mind, I will speak next. I have worked with Sylvia Jackson on the amendments and I have voiced my view on the subject on several occasions. I am grateful to her for the work that she has done and for the amendments that she has lodged. When the minister respo...
Pauline McNeill: Lab Chamber
15 Dec 2005
Family Law (Scotland) Bill:<br />Stage 3
Going to court is an indication that there is conflict over or disagreement about contact with children. The parental agreement should provide an important starting point for separating parents. I originally wanted the parental agreement in the bill, but I have accepted minist...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab Chamber
16 Mar 2006
European Commission Green Papers (Divorce and Succession and Wills)
I am grateful to the Parliamentary Bureau for allowing the Justice 1 Committee this slot to discuss our report on what we regard as very important European issues.I have received some glazed looks in the past few days when I tried to explain what the debate was to be about—it ...
Pauline McNeill: Lab Chamber
25 Sep 2008
Judiciary and Courts (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 1 is, in essence, about ensuring that sheriffs who work part time in our courts have representation on the Scottish Court Service board. I have been asked to raise the issue at stage 3 and I am happy to do so.Part-time sheriffs have a client base in private practice ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
21 Jun 2023
Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
The focus of the bill is to limit custody to those who pose a risk to public safety or to when it is necessary to prevent significant risk of prejudice. There are clearly benefits to reducing the damaging effects of short-term detention. Section 1 requires the court to give cr...
Pauline McNeill Lab Committee
07 Feb 2024
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I preface my remarks by saying that I think that the proposal for a specialist sexual offences court is the most significant proposal in the bill. However, I have to say that the Government is putting itself in danger of losing the consensus on that, which is what my line of q...
The Convener: Lab Committee
26 Nov 2003
Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
That forms part of the overall question of the shift of work load from the High Court to the sheriff court. Although we have been told that counsel can still appear in the sheriff court, our advisor has suggested that we test the matter a little further to find out whether tha...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
07 Oct 2025
Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill
As members have heard, the bill deals with two distinct issues: criminal justice modernisation, and domestic homicide and suicide reviews. Like Liam Kerr, Scottish Labour is not in favour of putting two distinct issues together, because we might have disagreements, and, in som...
The Convener: Lab Committee
16 Nov 2005
Family Law (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 2
Amendment 79, in my name, is in a group on its own. The amendment deals with a related issue about the enforcement of contact orders, but the subject is the cost of accessing the courts. One of the things that I found most shocking in studying this subject was the fact that, w...
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Committee

Criminal Justice Committee 26 March 2025

26 Mar 2025 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Fundamentally, I agree with the Government that there needs to be a significant shift in the way that we deal with sexual offences cases. Those cases are predominantly what the High Court is dealing with now, and the situation is alarming, with the rate of sexual offences against women and girls going up, not down. The Government has, commendably, already put in place many measures in relation to the issue, and I think that Parliament as a whole is pretty united on the fact that the issue has to be a primary focus not just of legislation but of practice and resources.

Sometimes, achieving change does not require legislation, as some things can be done without it. However, we are faced with a proposal in the bill to create a new sexual offences court.

My first concern about the idea of putting all solemn cases in a single court is that that will create an extremely large court. There is a bit of an unknown here. I accept that, in the proposal to create that new court, to give it additional sentencing powers and to allow sheriffs to sit in that court—approved by the Lord President, obviously—there is an attempt to do something different and to try to address the delays that exist, which affect too many victims of sexual assault. However, I have a concern that what is a significant change in the court system might not achieve what the Government has set out to achieve, because of the volume of cases that would probably be in the new court.

I am concerned about the cost of such a large court and the ability to ensure that it runs smoothly. I acknowledge that the court can sit in many places—I think that up to 38 courts could be used.

I have a slight concern that, depending on how the new court operates, it could look like there would be a downgrading of the status of rape as a crime. At the moment, because it is one of the most serious crimes that can be committed under Scots law, it therefore goes to the highest court. I maintain that the High Court will still be the highest court and, although the new court could be a significant court with the power to impose long sentences, it will not be the High Court. The High Court is a feature of the Scotland Act 1998; it is a requirement under that act to have a High Court, and it is the highest court, although, obviously, there is an appeal court as well.

I suppose that we might be satisfied that, in order to get the delay down, it is worth using sheriffs and changing the structure, but I cannot pretend that I do not have concerns about how rape cases not going to the High Court might be seen.

Also, because we have been so busy considering the proposal for the new court, we have not had time for much discussion about what happens to the High Court. The figures show that sexual offences cases make up just under 70 per cent of High Court cases, which means that, if the proposal is agreed to, only 30 per cent of the current volume of cases will be in the High Court.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Audrey Nicoll) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 11th meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Agenda item 1 is continued considera...
The Convener SNP
The first group is on jury size and verdicts. Amendment 146, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 147, 72 to 74, 92, 148 to 150 a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
Good morning. I acknowledge that members have taken significant time and great care to scrutinise the evidence and consider their positions on part 4 of the ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
You have just said that you are “satisfied” that the jury size can go back to 15 and that that will not make a material difference. Could you tell us on what...
Angela Constance SNP
Yes. Mr Kerr and other committee members will be aware of the substantial jury research that was undertaken in 2019. That was a significant piece of scholars...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Angela Constance SNP
I will after one sentence. The qualified majority option with most support, including from the senators of the College of Justice, was one in which at least...
Katy Clark Lab
You might well be coming on to the point that I will put to you, which is the evidence that the Lord Advocate gave to the committee. The Lord Advocate wrote...
Angela Constance SNP
It goes without saying that I am very aware of the Lord Advocate’s position on the issue, which she outlined to the committee. However, I must also be mindfu...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Good morning. In case it is not obvious, I should say that my amendments in this group were submitted some time ago, pretty much right after stage 1. If I am...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Good morning. My amendment 92 would require a jury to deliver a unanimous guilty conviction or, where that threshold was not met, allow a supermajority of 10...
Angela Constance SNP
Forgive me for intervening, but I should say, for clarity, that, although we have changed our position on the size of the jury, we have not at any point chan...
Sharon Dowey Con
Thank you for that clarification. It still does not fill me with confidence that the Scottish Government has a clear vision, supported by concrete evidence, ...
Katy Clark Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Sharon Dowey Con
I will just finish this paragraph, and then I will come back to you. If the research led the Government to support changing the size of the jury, does it no...
Katy Clark Lab
I agree with Sharon Dowey that the Scottish Government is coming forward with proposals without what she calls “concrete evidence”—I would call it a lack of ...
Sharon Dowey Con
I would say that, at the moment, none of us can put forward a proposal that is completely based on concrete evidence, because of the lack of evidence that we...
The Convener SNP
The mock jury research, which the cabinet secretary alluded to this morning, was an extensive bit of work. I also point out that, at stage 1, we not only too...
Sharon Dowey Con
I agree that we had the opportunity to consider it, but we are making radical changes to the whole legal system in Scotland, and the fact is that mock juries...
The Convener SNP
I open up the debate to other members.
Katy Clark Lab
Thank you, convener, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I agree with the cabinet secretary that, when we make changes of this nature,...
Liam Kerr Con
I am genuinely very interested in what you are saying. What do you suggest that we do? We are faced with a bill that will do things and with various amendmen...
Katy Clark Lab
Pauline McNeill spoke earlier about some of the work that could be done over the next few years if some of the amendments that we will consider later today a...
Liam Kerr Con
I thank all my colleagues and the cabinet secretary for their guidance this morning. I am very worried about the decision that we have been asked to make, wh...
Pauline McNeill Lab
You have outlined a position that is broadly similar to mine, which is that you do not want to go with a simple majority. Would it make sense for the Governm...
Liam Kerr Con
I absolutely share Pauline McNeill’s concern about the lack of research. To go back to my intervention on Katy Clark, whatever we do today, we are making a d...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I appreciate that you were not on the committee, but a couple of things came out in evidence in relation to the English judicial system. That system involves...
Liam Kerr Con
I hear that, and I freely concede that the committee’s report looks at the retrial issue and says that further evidence and consultation is needed. Indeed, t...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I go back to an earlier intervention that my colleague Katy Clark made on Sharon Dowey, who talked about a lack of evidence. Would you not concede that your ...
Liam Kerr Con
I say to Ms Mackay, with respect, that there is no evidence for the assertion that she has just made.