Committee
Social Security Committee 22 February 2018
22 Feb 2018 · S5 · Social Security Committee
Item of business
Social Security (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I accept that. However, at that stage, the applicant would be asked only whether, should their challenge be unsuccessful, they would want to appeal the decision automatically. We want to strike a balance. I agree with the minister that we are both trying to address a significant problem under the old system, balancing all of that with the concern that appeals will drop off because people do not realise that there is a two-stage process. Could the proposals have an impact on the clogging up of the tribunal system? We do not know the answer to that question, but I concede that the system that the Scottish Government has outlined, with its approach to reconsideration, should ensure that there would be fewer appeals, as reconsideration would be a fresh look at the original decision. I am not going to press amendment 33A and will seek to withdraw it, but I wanted to put on the record that that was my overall purpose. I will return to the issue at stage 3. I ask the Scottish Government to consider whether there should be a commitment to review and do some research if we find that the early stages of the operation of the new system result in a concerning drop in the number of people who choose to take up the right to appeal. Amendment 33A, by agreement, withdrawn. Amendment 33 agreed to. Amendment 34 moved—Jeane Freeman—and agreed to. Section 23, as amended, agreed to. After section 23 Amendment 35 moved—Jeane Freeman—and agreed to. Section 24—Duty to re-determine Amendment 36 moved—Jeane Freeman—and agreed to. Section 24, as amended, agreed to. Section 25—Notice of re-determination Amendment 82 moved—Jeane Freeman—and agreed to. Amendment 83 not moved. Amendment 193 not moved. Amendment 84 moved—Jeane Freeman. Amendment 84A not moved. Amendment 84 agreed to. Section 25, as amended, agreed to. Section 26—Notice where re-determination not made timeously Amendment 85 moved—Jeane Freeman—and agreed to. Amendment 86 not moved. Amendment 194 not moved. Amendment 87 moved—Jeane Freeman. Amendment 87A not moved. Amendment 87 agreed to. Section 26, as amended, agreed to. Section 27 agreed to. After section 27 Amendment 88 moved—Jeane Freeman. Amendment 88A not moved. Amendment 88 agreed to.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Clare Adamson)
SNP
Good morning and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2018 of the Social Security Committee. I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones, as they may interr...
The Convener
SNP
The first group is on means testing. Amendment 184, in the name of Mark Griffin, is grouped with amendments 185 to 187, 25A, 188, 27A, 190 and 30A.
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Amendments 188, 190, 27A and 30A would ensure that disability and employment injuries benefits could not be means tested by the current Government or by futu...
The Minister for Social Security (Jeane Freeman)
SNP
We have made a clear and consistent commitment that winter heating, disability and employment injury assistance will not be means tested, so I welcome our po...
The Convener
SNP
I ask Mr Griffin to wind up.
Mark Griffin
Lab
I simply press amendment 184. Amendment 184 agreed to. Amendments 185 to 187 moved—Mark Griffin—and agreed to. Amendment 24 moved—Jeane Freeman. Amendmen...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 67 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) McNeill, Pauli...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 67 agreed to. Section 14, as amended, agreed to. Schedule 4—Disability assistanc...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 68 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnstone, Alison (Lothian) (Green) McNeill, Pauli...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 68 agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
As explained earlier, we will dispose of amendment 69 before amendment 166. Amendment 69 not moved.
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on equal consideration of different impairments. Amendment 166, in the name of Mark Griffin, is the only amendment in the group.
Mark Griffin
Lab
Amendment 166 ensures that secondary legislation on disability assistance requires equal consideration of different disabilities and impairments, irrespectiv...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
I agree with the principle that underpins amendment 166, which is that individuals deserve to be awarded support based on their needs and the impact that the...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I welcome the minister’s comments and particularly her agreement with the amendment’s policy intent. I take on board her concerns about the impact that the a...
The Convener
SNP
The next group of amendments is on housing assistance. Amendment 152, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 153, 161 and 165.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
These amendments will allow us to deliver on our existing commitments to mitigate two areas of UK Government cuts to housing assistance: the bedroom tax and ...
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on short-term assistance. Amendment 154, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 155, 155A and 155B.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Amendments 154 and 155 respond to a request from stakeholders such as Carers Scotland and the Child Poverty Action Group for clarification. The amendments ma...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I thank the minister for her remarks, which are very helpful. All of us recognise that we have a new system coming in, and we all welcome it. Clearly, the s...
The Convener
SNP
Does anyone else wish to contribute to the debate?
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
SNP
I will be succinct, convener. I very much welcome amendments 154 and 155, which are extremely important and will make sure that people are covered and have t...
The Convener
SNP
No one else wishes to contribute, so I invite the minister to wind up.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
I express my gratitude to Mr Balfour for raising an important issue, but also for accepting our concerns and not moving his amendments. As has been said, a...
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on the form of application. Amendment 204, in the name of Mark Griffin, is grouped with amendments 205 and 210.
Mark Griffin
Lab
Amendments 204, 205 and 210 have been sponsored by and submitted on the advice of the Child Poverty Action Group. The amendments aim to clarify the process f...
The Convener
SNP
As no other members wish to comment on the amendments, I invite the minister to comment.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
I do not support Mr Griffin’s amendments, which would require that the process for applying for assistance be set out in regulations. The concern is about p...