Chamber
Plenary, 07 Jan 2004
07 Jan 2004 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I speak in support of the general principles of the bill, which has been welcomed widely outside and inside the chamber.
In spite of what the minister said in his opening speech, I have some concerns that the bill neither makes sufficient mention of geodiversity nor provides sufficient protection for our geological heritage. I believe that that heritage needs similar protection to the protection that is to be given to wildlife in the amendments to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 that are contained in the bill. I hope that I can persuade the minister and the Parliament of that—I should say that I am considering the stage 2 amendments that I will lodge to allow us to debate those issues further.
In particular, I would like to see reference being made in the bill to the protection of Scotland's internationally important fossil heritage. Professor John McManus raised the matter in evidence to the committee, but it had been brought to my attention previously by Jack Saxon, a palaeontologist from Caithness who is a member of the Caithness fossil group.
I ask the indulgence of members before I give a short lesson in geology. About 380 million years ago, Lake Orcadie stretched from Shetland through Caithness, east Sutherland, Easter Ross and the Black Isle to the Moray and Aberdeenshire coast. Fossil fish of world importance are now to be discovered in the laminated siltstone that is to be found in the Orkney and Caithness flag quarries as well as along the Moray coast.
Members who are familiar with the life and work of Hugh Miller, the quarryman from Cromarty who was an eminent political and religious writer of the 19th century and one of the fathers of modern geology, will be aware of the importance of the region to our national geodiversity. If I were still a teacher and members were my class, I would now ask the minister to pass around some examples of tiny ammonite fossils that I collected some years ago at the Eathie burn on the Black Isle. I would also show members photographs of fossil fish from Lake Orcadie, one of which was first discovered by Hugh Miller.
When I visited Our Dynamic Earth recently, I noted a book for sale on how to build up a fossil collection and the fact that fossils were for sale. There was no indication that fossils were anything other than fair game for the collector.
Members should note that we are no longer allowed to dig up wild flowers, nor are we allowed to collect bird's eggs. Indeed, the penalties for robbing the nests of rare birds of prey are severe. What of the rare fish fossils in Orkney and Caithness, however? Collecting ammonites may be seen to be akin to picking daisies. However, the fish fossils that are to be found at sites such as Achanarras quarry near Thurso are like rare orchids or sea eagle eggs, except that, unlike flowers, they cannot be grown again from seed and, unlike birds, they cannot breed again another year. Once the fossils are removed, they are lost.
Achanarras quarry has the largest number of fish genera in the world, yet its protection is minimal when compared with lesser sites in other parts of the world. Achanarras quarry belongs to SNH and is an SSSI. This year, it will cease to be a national nature reserve because it is feared that the site is no longer safe for the general public to visit.
Although people are supposed to have a permit to collect a limited number of fossils from the quarry floor, that does not deter the fossil thieves who, like rare egg collectors, steal for their own very private collection or have a lucrative market waiting. They attack the quarry face, often destroying good examples of fossils in their search for the most valuable ones. Specimens stolen from Caithness or Orkney quarries can fetch up to £20,000 in Germany and can be found in German museums. Indeed, Caithness fish fossils can be found on sale in other parts of Britain.
These fossil stealers are not scientists. They are businessmen, who come equipped with great diamond-toothed chainsaws to rip into the stone in search of valuable prizes and who, as they cut, destroy the environment and rob us of our geological heritage. As a result, I urge the minister to include rocks, fossils and minerals in the bill's preamble and to make it plain in the bill that fossils and so on are explicitly included in third-party damage to an SSSI or a nature conservation area.
Furthermore, I ask the minister to consider including in the guidance on the bill a list of named fossil types that are not to be removed without authorisation, whether or not they are in an SSSI or an NCA. There is a significant problem with designating fossil sites as SSSIs. When a fossil site is so designated, it becomes a focus for fossil theft. Many now see Achanarras as a sacrificial site that protects other sites by attracting collectors. As a result, I want the bill to be amended to protect our geological heritage in the same way that part 3 seeks to protect wildlife.
There is also a need for police training. At the moment, officers will carry out stop-and-search exercises on cars, looking out for the equipment that signifies an egg thief. It should also be possible for the police to spot stone-cutting equipment, to recognise fossil types and to gather intelligence on habitual culprits. Although I realise that such measures cannot guarantee success, I believe that an explicit inclusion of fossils in the bill will help local people in the north of Scotland to protect their geological heritage in the same way that the people of Mull protect their sea eagles. I also hope that it will have the same effect in other parts of Scotland, because the north is not the only area where rare fossils are found and need protection.
We must also indicate to the Crown Office and the judiciary that such environmental crimes are to be taken seriously and dealt with severely. What is important is not just the monetary value of the thefts but the incalculable harm that is done to the environment. The same is true of, for example, illegal salmon netting. Such netting has been the cause of death for two of the Moray firth dolphins, which make up the only dolphin population in Scotland. When such cases come to court, judgment must be based not just on the value of the catch but on the potential effect of illegal netting on the dolphins.
I support this most important bill. However, I ask the minister to consider whether the matters that I have raised can be included in the bill or in the guidance on it.
In spite of what the minister said in his opening speech, I have some concerns that the bill neither makes sufficient mention of geodiversity nor provides sufficient protection for our geological heritage. I believe that that heritage needs similar protection to the protection that is to be given to wildlife in the amendments to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 that are contained in the bill. I hope that I can persuade the minister and the Parliament of that—I should say that I am considering the stage 2 amendments that I will lodge to allow us to debate those issues further.
In particular, I would like to see reference being made in the bill to the protection of Scotland's internationally important fossil heritage. Professor John McManus raised the matter in evidence to the committee, but it had been brought to my attention previously by Jack Saxon, a palaeontologist from Caithness who is a member of the Caithness fossil group.
I ask the indulgence of members before I give a short lesson in geology. About 380 million years ago, Lake Orcadie stretched from Shetland through Caithness, east Sutherland, Easter Ross and the Black Isle to the Moray and Aberdeenshire coast. Fossil fish of world importance are now to be discovered in the laminated siltstone that is to be found in the Orkney and Caithness flag quarries as well as along the Moray coast.
Members who are familiar with the life and work of Hugh Miller, the quarryman from Cromarty who was an eminent political and religious writer of the 19th century and one of the fathers of modern geology, will be aware of the importance of the region to our national geodiversity. If I were still a teacher and members were my class, I would now ask the minister to pass around some examples of tiny ammonite fossils that I collected some years ago at the Eathie burn on the Black Isle. I would also show members photographs of fossil fish from Lake Orcadie, one of which was first discovered by Hugh Miller.
When I visited Our Dynamic Earth recently, I noted a book for sale on how to build up a fossil collection and the fact that fossils were for sale. There was no indication that fossils were anything other than fair game for the collector.
Members should note that we are no longer allowed to dig up wild flowers, nor are we allowed to collect bird's eggs. Indeed, the penalties for robbing the nests of rare birds of prey are severe. What of the rare fish fossils in Orkney and Caithness, however? Collecting ammonites may be seen to be akin to picking daisies. However, the fish fossils that are to be found at sites such as Achanarras quarry near Thurso are like rare orchids or sea eagle eggs, except that, unlike flowers, they cannot be grown again from seed and, unlike birds, they cannot breed again another year. Once the fossils are removed, they are lost.
Achanarras quarry has the largest number of fish genera in the world, yet its protection is minimal when compared with lesser sites in other parts of the world. Achanarras quarry belongs to SNH and is an SSSI. This year, it will cease to be a national nature reserve because it is feared that the site is no longer safe for the general public to visit.
Although people are supposed to have a permit to collect a limited number of fossils from the quarry floor, that does not deter the fossil thieves who, like rare egg collectors, steal for their own very private collection or have a lucrative market waiting. They attack the quarry face, often destroying good examples of fossils in their search for the most valuable ones. Specimens stolen from Caithness or Orkney quarries can fetch up to £20,000 in Germany and can be found in German museums. Indeed, Caithness fish fossils can be found on sale in other parts of Britain.
These fossil stealers are not scientists. They are businessmen, who come equipped with great diamond-toothed chainsaws to rip into the stone in search of valuable prizes and who, as they cut, destroy the environment and rob us of our geological heritage. As a result, I urge the minister to include rocks, fossils and minerals in the bill's preamble and to make it plain in the bill that fossils and so on are explicitly included in third-party damage to an SSSI or a nature conservation area.
Furthermore, I ask the minister to consider including in the guidance on the bill a list of named fossil types that are not to be removed without authorisation, whether or not they are in an SSSI or an NCA. There is a significant problem with designating fossil sites as SSSIs. When a fossil site is so designated, it becomes a focus for fossil theft. Many now see Achanarras as a sacrificial site that protects other sites by attracting collectors. As a result, I want the bill to be amended to protect our geological heritage in the same way that part 3 seeks to protect wildlife.
There is also a need for police training. At the moment, officers will carry out stop-and-search exercises on cars, looking out for the equipment that signifies an egg thief. It should also be possible for the police to spot stone-cutting equipment, to recognise fossil types and to gather intelligence on habitual culprits. Although I realise that such measures cannot guarantee success, I believe that an explicit inclusion of fossils in the bill will help local people in the north of Scotland to protect their geological heritage in the same way that the people of Mull protect their sea eagles. I also hope that it will have the same effect in other parts of Scotland, because the north is not the only area where rare fossils are found and need protection.
We must also indicate to the Crown Office and the judiciary that such environmental crimes are to be taken seriously and dealt with severely. What is important is not just the monetary value of the thefts but the incalculable harm that is done to the environment. The same is true of, for example, illegal salmon netting. Such netting has been the cause of death for two of the Moray firth dolphins, which make up the only dolphin population in Scotland. When such cases come to court, judgment must be based not just on the value of the catch but on the potential effect of illegal netting on the dolphins.
I support this most important bill. However, I ask the minister to consider whether the matters that I have raised can be included in the bill or in the guidance on it.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-425, in the name of Ross Finnie, on the general principles of the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill.
The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):
LD
There can be no doubt that Scotland's natural heritage matters to us all. It matters both in its own right and because it is one of the most basic national a...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
Is the minister aware that on 11 December the Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development agreed with me—on the record—that the biodiversity strate...
Ross Finnie:
LD
If I may, I will come back to that point when I develop my theme. That was a cunning intervention, coming at that particular stage.As I was saying, we have a...
Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab):
Lab
In light of the remarks that the minister has just made, does he not agree that it is very disappointing that the committee's conclusions on snaring fail to ...
Ross Finnie:
LD
I feel that it is not appropriate to do so on the very good grounds of the evidence that was presented to the committee, which was very similar to the eviden...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con):
Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Ross Finnie:
LD
No, I think that I am about to incur the wrath of the Presiding Officer.The bill is important because it tackles issues that are of fundamental importance to...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
I take the opportunity to express my thanks to all those who have assisted the Environment and Rural Development Committee in the production of its report. I...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
As we all know, the Conservative party stands up for the interests of the countryside. In trying to do that over the past four years, we have on occasion fou...
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):
Lab
I wish to put on record that I am speaking as a Labour MSP and not as the convener of the Environment and Rural Development Committee.I congratulate the comm...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
I welcome the bill. There is a good deal of consensus around its basic principles, which is down to the good policy development process that was followed fro...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I speak in support of the general principles of the bill, which has been welcomed widely outside and inside the chamber. In spite of what the minister said i...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
First of all, I congratulate the minister on introducing this important bill for consideration. After all, many issues related to nature conservation law in ...
Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Although I agree that it is possible that there are too many deer in some parts of Scotland, does the member agree that in many parts of Scotland the numbers...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I certainly do not agree with much of the intent behind Jamie McGrigor's statements. For example, around the area that I know—the Stirling area—the Forestry ...
Mr McGrigor:
Con
Will Mr Crawford give way?
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I have already given way to Jamie McGrigor once and, quite frankly, his point was so ridiculous that I am not going to give way again at this stage.Not only ...
Mr Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Does Bruce Crawford accept that the Deer Commission for Scotland itself is not advocating any strengthening in the powers to cull deer? As he rightly says, i...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
Oh, yes it is. I think that Ted Brocklebank should take a look at the Official Report of the Environment and Rural Development Committee meeting at which the...
Mr Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Scotland's beautiful and diverse countryside is, of course, one of its priceless assets. Through a unique combination of circumstances, including history, th...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Does the member accept the fact that the species that contributes most to the Highland economy is the human species, not the red deer?
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
The member is absolutely right, but the human species would not be in the Highlands in the same numbers without the presence of the red deer and annual stalk...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
No, Rob Gibson has had his opportunity. I will press on.The emptying of the glens that would result if deer stalking was abandoned would make the original cl...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I accept some of what the member says about the figures that are available, but the point is surely whether he supports what I said about potential amendment...
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
I will deal with that in the next three sentences.I believe that the best people to manage deer in the Highlands are the landowners and estate factors who ma...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Mr Brocklebank:
Con
No. I am just finishing.We do not believe that the Deer Commission seeks or requires any extension of its existing powers relating to the compulsory culling ...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
I feel that I should be standing up and saying, "Oh deary dear," but I shall resist.I express my pleasure at having arrived at this stage of the consideratio...