Committee
Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 13 Feb 2001
13 Feb 2001 · S1 · Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee
Item of business
Duffner Report
Before I give a summary of the points that were raised by Christina Allon, I want to say that our decision to have small, informal meetings was a good one. We gained a lot of information on, and insight into, what people saw as the issues, problems and positives. It was well worth doing and we should continue to work in that way, as it makes best use of the committee's time.Grampian Careers welcomed the Duffner report's key focus on client service and its emphasis on inclusiveness and having a social agenda.Christina Allon said that it made a lot of sense to merge functions, because that will provide coherence and synergy, and that engaging in collaboration with a focus on the individual was the way forward.Grampian Careers welcomed the all-age careers guidance service and careers Scotland in principle, but raised several issues. The first of those, which was not regarded as critical, concerned the vacancy handling service. Grampian Careers felt that that service had pros and cons, but it supported retention of the service.Although Grampian Careers embraced the new concept of careers Scotland, it talked about the need for balance between maintaining central quality and standards on the one hand and recognising local differences on the other. The move to national standards was welcomed, but Grampian Careers was keen not to lose the sensitivity to local needs.Another concern was that the people from the four agencies who would join careers Scotland would have to forget the barriers or sensitivities that they might bring with them from those previous organisations and move forward. When we asked the minister about that, he said that work would be done at a national level and that local task groups would be set up to take it forward. Grampian Careers would like that to be done quickly, efficiently and sensitively. It did not want there to be a lot of hanging around, because that would not help staff morale.Grampian Careers talked about income generation. Twenty-five per cent of its income comes from outwith the contract, which, Grampian Careers said, allowed extra development, such as the development of its information and communications technology and web services. It wanted to ensure that the move to careers Scotland would allow it to continue to bid for contracts such as the new deal work that it undertook.Grampian Careers talked about the Kudos leaflet that it had issued. It wanted to retain the flexibility to take part in such programmes.Impartiality was another concern. Grampian Careers saw the sense in the alignment with Scottish Enterprise, but talked about impartiality being crucial. It welcomed the ministerial task force that will be set up and said that the task force would have to set down the parameters for careers Scotland so that that body would be seen as impartial and one step removed from the Scottish Enterprise network. Grampian Careers wanted checks and balances to be established right down the line to ensure impartiality at all levels.Grampian Careers thought that local advisory boards should be renamed, because the word "advisory" took away from the seriousness and local importance of the boards. The local-level staffing plans needed to be translated quickly into reality.Grampian Careers looked for strong leadership from the centre for the whole process. The work needs to be done quickly; once 9 March is past and the consultation period is over, Grampian Careers just wants to move on to the new organisation.Grampian Careers talked about the fact that the additional £24 million that the minister had announced was ring-fenced primarily for all-age guidance and inclusion. Bids were already in for that money. Grampian Careers also asked about the additional funding for the creation and running of careers Scotland.Unless anyone wants to add anything, those were the main points that were discussed in our meeting.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
SNP
Agenda item 3 is the Scottish Executive response to the careers service review, also known as the Duffner report. As members may remember, we appointed repor...
Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab):
Lab
Before I give a summary of the points that were raised by Christina Allon, I want to say that our decision to have small, informal meetings was a good one. W...
The Convener:
SNP
Broadly speaking, Grampian Careers was in favour of the Duffner report. Its main concern was the additional bit—the relationship with Scottish Enterprise at ...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
That was exactly it.
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
Was my presentation fair?
The Convener:
SNP
Yes, it was very fair.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
It was comprehensive.
The Convener:
SNP
Bill Butler met Janice Laird of Fife adult guidance service, who was a Duffner committee member, and Joyce Johnston of Fife College of Further and Higher Edu...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
Both the people I met broadly welcomed the proposals, but had some concerns. Both stressed the need to ensure that the proposals did not reduce the scope for...
The Convener:
SNP
Elaine Thomson met Alex Blackwood of Glasgow Learning Alliance.
Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab):
Lab
That is right. Alex Blackwood was also a member of the Duffner committee, so it was interesting to have a discussion with him. Some of the issues that he rai...
The Convener:
SNP
Des McNulty met John Sweeney—not John Swinney, I should emphasise—of the learning business partnership in Paisley and Danny Logue of Renfrewshire Careers.
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
I also met John Sharp, who is part of the Paisley learning business partnership.There was a general welcome for the Duffner report, which the respondents fel...
The Convener:
SNP
Rather than open up the debate now, it would be appropriate to hear Barbara Duffner's evidence. We will then consider our report in private. Do members agree?
Members indicated agreement.
The Convener:
SNP
I welcome Ms Duffner. First, I thank you for supplying us with a briefing paper before giving oral evidence. I ask you to say a word or two by way of introdu...
Barbara Duffner (Careers Service Review):
Thank you for the opportunity to come here this afternoon. It was good to hear the feedback that members have gathered from talking to various people, as it ...
Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
The review was concerned less with mechanisms and more with what is delivered. We now have an extensive framework for delivery. Mr McNulty made a point about...
Barbara Duffner:
As you say, we focused on what we wanted to achieve, not only because that was easier but because you can get so involved in how you are going to achieve som...
Miss Goldie:
Con
My second question is on cost, which has been alluded to. My impression is that there is a degree of apprehension at local level that the budgeted figure all...
Barbara Duffner:
The costings that we did were very much on the back of a fag packet—we made that clear in our report. They were our best guess as to what funding might be ne...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
I want to ask about the balance between central standards edicts and local flexibility. From the evidence that we took and from my own experience, I think th...
Barbara Duffner:
That came over strongly from everybody with whom we spoke. The justification for national standards is around branding, common products, the web-enabled syst...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
We asked Wendy Alexander that question. She said that any new structure would allow for that, which is welcome.
Barbara Duffner:
Yes, it is.
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
My second question is on impartiality. Although people welcomed the structure, they said that there would have to be checks and balances to ensure that impar...
Barbara Duffner:
It will come from two strands, the first of which is the professionalism of the careers guidance people. I expect a professionally qualified person to stand ...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
Yes. Whatever the board is called, the structure of one third: one third: one third will play a key role in delivering impartiality.
Barbara Duffner:
Yes.
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
You mentioned the Executive response. What do you think about the model of careers Scotland being under the financial control of Scottish Enterprise and High...