Committee
Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 05 Dec 2001
05 Dec 2001 · S1 · Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee
Item of business
Lifelong Learning Inquiry
Before I make the report, I should declare an interest. Before I was elected, I worked for 16 years at Fife College of Further and Higher Education. I am a member of Unison and the Educational Institute of Scotland.I will report to the committee, as none of the other members who were on the visit is here. We visited the Dundee city partnership and Scottish Enterprise Fife on 5 November. One of the reasons for our visit was to examine integration of volume training and further and higher education. We met representatives from the Dundee city partnership and the FAST-TRAC project in Fife and members of the Scottish Executive opportunities and choices working group.We were impressed by the partnership working in Dundee and Fife. Good practice in partnership working could be picked up from both projects. The FAST-TRAC project has been in existence since 1995 and has seen thousands of people take an integrated approach to both the college and employer model. The issue that came up time and again on the FAST-TRAC project was that Scottish Enterprise has continued to restrict funding for employer-based skillseekers to Scottish vocational qualifications. Some young people were studying for national certificate or higher national certificate qualifications in addition to SVQs, in an integrated manner, to allow funding to be accessed, but young people's choice was still very restricted. Although the people involved in both the FAST-TRAC project and the Dundee city partnership would have liked funding to be extended to the full range of Scottish Qualifications Authority qualifications, that was still being restricted. Among the issues raised was the inappropriateness of funding mechanisms. It came across strongly that funding was driving the training, instead of training and the needs of young people and of the economy driving the funding.Employers in Fife claimed that bureaucracy had recently become much worse for them because of the new Scottish Enterprise requirements, and that they much preferred their previous working relationships with FAST-TRAC. Another criticism that we heard in relation to funding mechanisms was about the milestones—or millstones, as the employers called them. They felt that there was pressure on young people to achieve quickly in order to access the funding, and that that reduced the value of the training and failed to promote sustainable employment. Instead of professionals deciding how training should be provided for young people and at what rate, having regard to the quality of teaching and learning, those millstones and the level of funding available appeared to be the driving force.It emerged that people were keen for a learning entitlement to be established, not least in order to provide a level playing field for all young people. We also heard much about the reduction of the audit burden. Most people said that they would prefer a single audit system and a single funding system. There is a need for increased choice and flexibility. The Scottish Enterprise funding is tied to Scottish vocational qualifications, and employers told us that SVQs were not always the best qualifications for their needs. A variance in standards was highlighted. In Fife, and specifically in the FAST-TRAC model, the young people seem to have as much choice, guidance and counselling as required, and that seems to be high on the agenda. However, from the views of one or two of the young people involved in the Dundee city partnership, it seemed that their competence rather than their understanding had been assessed. We found that individuals had had very different experiences on the vocational training route, and the committee should address that. We noted some good examples of access and credit transfer, and of actual reward for the training that had been undertaken by the young people. That depended very much on individual contacts and on relationships between colleges. It was not, however, the norm. There seemed to be quite a bit of confusion about which non-traditional qualifications the higher education institutions would accept. We felt that the committee would need to address that point as well. Our final session was with the opportunities and choices working group. We were disappointed at the lack of progress made, and would like work to continue. The three of us who went on the visit—Kenny MacAskill, Ken Macintosh and I—all felt that we now needed action. The FAST-TRAC project has been on the go for a number of years, and evaluations and pilot schemes have taken place, although they covered only 53 learners. We felt that it really was time to address the needs of young people. We encouraged the working group to report with haste. Our visit was useful, because it reflected at local level what the national bodies had been telling us. We heard loud and clear from the young people that advice and guidance was very necessary. We felt that that was being provided, particularly in the case of FAST-TRAC, which showed through in the young people's success and in the positive impact that training had had on them. We were interested in the move away from a bums-on-seats philosophy to a more holistic social and economic approach to the training, and we were concerned that while local initiatives were driving good practice forward, central agendas were continuing to thwart flexibility and development.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Item 1 on the agenda is the report to the committee on the case study visit to Dundee and Fife. Marilyn Livingstone will make that report.
Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab):
Lab
Before I make the report, I should declare an interest. Before I was elected, I worked for 16 years at Fife College of Further and Higher Education. I am a m...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you. We all found it an interesting report, which mirrors to some extent what other reports have indicated but brings up some new issues. I am happy fo...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
That was a young person who was unsure about whether they were a skillseeker. They did not seem to know what training programme they were on or what entitlem...
Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab):
Lab
I apologise for my late arrival and for going over any areas that Marilyn Livingstone has already covered. You mention that the engineering employers in part...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
It was felt that there were restrictions on training, and that a young person might have to take one kind of qualification when an employer might have wanted...
Elaine Thomson:
Lab
It is another example of the rigidity that we have found in other areas.
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
Yes, it was rigidity, and there were restrictions on delivery.
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you.We will now continue our evidence taking for the lifelong learning inquiry. I welcome formally a formidable sextet of witnesses: David Bleiman, the...
David Bleiman (Association of University Teachers):
I am assistant general secretary of the AUT, the full-time official of the union responsible for Scotland. My colleague, Namasiku Liandu, is an officer of AU...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
In fairness to the other participants, please draw to a close, Mr Bleiman.
David Bleiman:
I was informed that I could speak for up to five minutes and your indication that it was two-and-a-half to three minutes was the first I was aware of that. I...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
I apologise. I shall deal with Mr Watkins later.
David Bleiman:
Higher education has a wide variety of offerings. The second set of issues is about how people are managed and rewarded in higher education. We suggested to ...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
I apologise for trying to cut you off in your prime, Mr Bleiman. We have a lot of evidence to consider and the committee is anxious to question in some depth...
Marian Healy (Educational Institute of Scotland):
I will try to be brief and focus on the concerns of the Educational Institute of Scotland that are not developed in our submission. The EIS is delighted to b...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you. The next witnesses are Lee Whitehill and Carol Judge. I see that your submissions are much shorter. Are your introductory remarks likely to be fai...
Lee Whitehill (Manufacturing, Science and Finance Union):
Yes.
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you very much.
Lee Whitehill:
The Manufacturing, Science and Finance Union represents technical grades in universities and further education. I want to talk briefly about our experience w...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you. You have brought up points that were not mentioned in the submission. That is most helpful.
Carol Judge (Unison):
I am the Scottish organiser of Unison. All the comments that have been made by other witnesses are also relevant to Unison. Regrettably, we have found, as th...
The Deputy Convener:
Con
Thank you. I suggest that members direct their questions toward particular organisations, otherwise we will be all over the countryside. Let us be logical wi...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
I want to ask two sets of questions: the first set will be to the AUT and the EIS and the second set will be to the MSF and Unison. The main issue that has c...
Howard Wollman (Educational Institute of Scotland):
On articulation, we argue that there is much good practice but—as Marian Healy said—it is uneven. Some higher education institutions have very close links wi...
Marian Healy:
On funding, we do not have an inspired template for the committee, but we know that we need a more secure base for funding. To continue to fund further educa...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
A large chunk of money is spent on volume training—that is, the Government training programmes, including skillseekers. We have heard a suggestion that there...
Marian Healy:
We have seen the evidence that was given by the Association of Scottish Colleges; we, too, suggest that if colleges have the relevant expertise and are locat...
Howard Wollman:
There is a cost attached to articulation and to providing easier access from FE into HE and people must work hard at matching up the programmes in different ...
Marilyn Livingstone:
Lab
I ask the AUT to make a statement.