Committee
Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 May 2009
05 May 2009 · S3 · Equal Opportunities Committee
Item of business
Female Offenders in the Criminal Justice System Inquiry
I want to talk about alternatives to Cornton Vale. The 218 centre has been mentioned. I get the feeling that everyone who has given evidence thinks that the centre, which is being evaluated, does good work. Everyone seems to agree that we should replicate that elsewhere. However, there is less agreement on whether it would be better to have smaller prisons for women dotted around Scotland rather than concentrating women in Cornton Vale. What do the witnesses think? Should we have smaller prisons, but retain Cornton Vale?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Margaret Mitchell):
Con
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2009 of the Equal Opportunities Committee. I remind all those present, including members, that ...
Dr Andrew McLellan (HM Chief Inspector of Prisons):
Thank you.
The Convener:
Con
Sue Brookes is also a former governor of Cornton Vale. Given that our witnesses will talk about posts that they are out of, or will be out of shortly, perhap...
Sue Brookes (Scottish Prison Service):
We could probably improve our information gathering about all of our offender population. Currently, we run an integrated case management process, which is a...
Dr McLellan:
My answer is not gender specific. Improvements could be made to the information that is gathered about both men and women. I have high hopes that the prospec...
The Convener:
Con
I asked my question specifically because the committee heard during the previous evidence session that Cornton Vale does not always track prisoners on releas...
Sue Brookes:
Andrew McLellan is right. There are issues to do with sharing information during transitions for male and female offenders, whether the person is entering or...
The Convener:
Con
Improvements should be relatively easy with throughcare, but we know that throughcare does not always exist. However, that is a different subject.
Dr McLellan:
I welcome your explanation of the thinking behind the question and the committee's determination to focus not simply on what happens in prison, but on the ke...
The Convener:
Con
How do overcrowding and short-term sentences impact on reoffending rates, specifically for female offenders? Does overcrowding have the same impact on female...
Sue Brookes:
To explain that, I will need to say a little more about the background of the female offenders. I am keen to highlight the key part that their trauma and abu...
The Convener:
Con
Is there a specific difference in the impact of overcrowding on male and female offenders? You suggest that the impact on female offenders is greater.
Sue Brookes:
I will give a practical example. In my time at Cornton Vale, we created in Ross house a specific day care environment for women who were acutely vulnerable a...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
You paint a fairly gloomy picture. I visited Cornton Vale when you were governor. It is worrying if overcrowding is making the situation worse. We will talk ...
Dr McLellan:
I share your confusion about the criminal identity of prostitution. In recent years, suggestions have been made about a move away from criminalising women to...
The Convener:
Con
Is there an overcrowding issue for prisoners on remand? We have heard in written evidence that toilet facilities for the over-21s and the under-21s are reall...
Dr McLellan:
I could talk about toilet facilities in Cornton Vale all day, and I am glad that the committee is paying attention to that. Year after year, reports condemn ...
The Convener:
Con
It was even suggested that some of the conditions in Cornton Vale were such that, were they to prevail in a male prison, the prisoners would be on the roof.
Sue Brookes:
A range of issues is tied up in this. The first issue, from a governor's point of view, is that many of the buildings at Cornton Vale are quite old and not p...
The Convener:
Con
Marlyn Glen has not yet had her question answered about prostitution being asked about on an offender's entry into prison, but abuse of any kind—domestic, vi...
Sue Brookes:
I am not sure that that understanding is correct. Services are certainly available in Cornton Vale for women who have been abused. I suspect that it comes ba...
Dr McLellan:
I do not want the committee to lose sight of the centralising/localising issue. If Mrs Brookes is correct, and those three issues are the paramount questions...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
You say "a small unit"—might you have several small units within a prison, or do you mean a separate unit of 12?
Dr McLellan:
The experience of the past, which I am defending, was units of 12 people in other, larger prisons.
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
I have a couple of questions about the causes of crime. You might feel that that is rather a big subject for a few minutes this morning, but it is important ...
Sue Brookes:
My view is that many women come into offending as a result of difficulties in their relationships. Much of that involves an experience or background of physi...
Dr McLellan:
You hardly ever meet a prisoner who is not poor, a woman prisoner who is not an addict, a woman prisoner who is not afraid, or a prisoner who has been loved ...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
Previous witnesses have suggested that some people stop offending not because of intervention by the criminal justice system but simply because they are gett...
Sue Brookes:
I suspect that the most important issue for women in relation to reducing or preventing reoffending involves repairing relationship damage. In throughcare, i...
Dr McLellan:
Could you repeat the question, Malcolm?