Committee
Health and Community Care Committee, 23 Jan 2002
23 Jan 2002 · S1 · Health and Community Care Committee
Item of business
Tobacco Advertising and Promotion (Scotland) Bill
On balance, I favour the correspondence route at this stage. I do not know whether Robin Cook would be in a position to say much more to us if we were to have him before the committee now, because of the stage that the bill has reached in the process. It is likely that the Government will make its view known at the end of February, once the bill has gone through the parliamentary procedure in the House of Lords, so we will have a clearer view then, when we will be pulling together our stage 1 report. The dates relating to the process in the House of Lords are the dates I have been given by Tim Clement-Jones's office. We should remember that the last time the committee was unhappy about the amount of evidence that had been taken at stage 1, on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, we took evidence from witnesses at stage 2. The bill contained such fundamental differences when it came for consideration at stage 2, because the Executive had listened to what was said at stage 1, that we took evidence from parents groups. I suggest that we write to seek clarification of the UK Government's position and the time scale in the House of Lords. We should state in our letter that we see it as the first stage in clarifying the UK position and that we may well, in the fullness of time, want to return to the UK Government once we see the written evidence that it gives the committee. If we want to take evidence from anybody else at stage 2, we would still be able to do so. As far as I am aware, we do not have a date for a debate on the stage 1 report in the chamber. I think that the date for that and the date for the bill at Westminster having gone through the parliamentary procedure in the House of Lords will be contemporaneous. Another issue is whether we want to hear further evidence. I am keen that we take expert evidence on brand stretching, to investigate whether we could close a potential loophole before further progress is made on the legislation. If we cannot do that at present, one option might be to come back to that at stage 1. That is just my view.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
LD
Good morning, Dr Wrench.We move to agenda item 3, which is the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion (Scotland) Bill. As colleagues know, the bill is being promo...
Dr John Wrench (Highland NHS Board):
I would like to make a short statement.Thank you for the opportunity to give evidence to the committee. I should state that I am representing my own views an...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Thank you for your submission, Dr Wrench. Although you express support for the principles of the bill in your submission, you also support action at UK level...
Dr Wrench:
I would support such an approach, given that there has already been a delay in implementing the UK legislation. From a public health point of view, I would s...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Do you agree with the view of many experts that, although a completely comprehensive ban—which could probably be achieved only at European level—is the most ...
Dr Wrench:
Yes. It is clear that the degree of the impact is proportional to the completeness of the ban. However, it would still be worthwhile to go ahead with a Scott...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
You have some concerns about the defences that are outlined in section 4 of the bill. Could you expand on those views, particularly on how some of the defenc...
Dr Wrench:
We have not gone into the legal implications in detail but, on reading the bill, it seemed to us that the number and degree of defences raised the possibilit...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
In your submission you talk about the monetary cost of smoking. Given that this week there has been much publicity about children living in poverty, particul...
Dr Wrench:
Yes. I cannot quote specific research, although I know that general research supports what is in my submission. People have expressed the concern that if the...
The Convener:
LD
Nicola Sturgeon made the point that many people take the view that a UK ban would be preferable, that a European ban would be even better, but that we might ...
Dr Wrench:
It is difficult to say. It is true that international research in Norway, Finland, New Zealand and France shows that national bans have a greater impact. How...
The Convener:
LD
Do you mean if the ban applied only to Scotland?
Dr Wrench:
Yes, I think so, but I am giving you an empirical answer. It is difficult to base an answer on objective evidence.
The Convener:
LD
Do you think that the Department of Health's 2.5 per cent estimate is pessimistic?
Dr Wrench:
I think that, compared to studies that I have seen and discussed with other people, its estimate would be considered to be low.
The Convener:
LD
The word "low" is probably a better word to use. I wrote down that it was a "conservative estimate," but I do not want to get my parties mixed up.
Mary Scanlon:
Con
In your written submission you mentioned that recent research confirmed that in four countries—Norway, Finland, New Zealand and France—in which a ban on toba...
Dr Wrench:
The first question I ask is whether the ban in the countries from which you quoted the not-so-good figures is part of a wider tobacco-control strategy. The e...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I want to ask about that. I find the different figures confusing to look at. I would support anything that would reduce smoking and improve women's and child...
Dr Wrench:
To focus on Finland for a minute, I am surprised by the figures that you have quoted for that country, not only in relation to the ban on tobacco advertising...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
It is not my research, but the Scottish Parliament's.
Dr Wrench:
Because we are dealing with a moving scenario, it is very difficult to measure a specific output or outcome from advertising bans or restrictions. We need to...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I would be very happy with a reduction in the number of people smoking. However, the figures before me suggest that there has been an increase in tobacco con...
The Convener:
LD
If we require further clarification of that issue, we can return to it.
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
For the record, it may be useful for Dr Wrench to know that the figures that Mary Scanlon is citing are 12 years out of date—they cover the period up to 1990...
Dr Wrench:
That is my view. It is very important to stress that any ban would be part of a wider tobacco-control strategy.
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
Would you care to elaborate on the point that you made in paragraph 4 of your submission about brand sharing or brand stretching? Do you know of any evidence...
Dr Wrench:
There is evidence of companies latching their brand name on to other products that children and young people may be interested in buying. I am sure that ther...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Dr Wrench might wish to submit written information on brand stretching. The assertion in his submission must be based on evidence. He has made some general p...