Committee
Environment and Rural Development Committee, 04 Feb 2004
04 Feb 2004 · S2 · Environment and Rural Development Committee
Item of business
Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I listened carefully to what the minister and Nora Radcliffe said. I am concerned about how amendments 145 to 148 would interact with the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003. If disturbance causes damage, that should be a crime and it would be a crime under the bill as drafted. However, it is unrealistic to be more specific than that. The amendments would run contrary to the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 because anyone who walks in an area in which there are birds or other fauna might disturb them, intentionally or otherwise. My genuine concern is that the amendments might allow landowners to prohibit access to sites of special scientific interest, which would run contrary to measures that the Parliament has introduced in the past.The minister highlighted the issue of the burden of proof. Whose word would be accepted? Would it be the person who saw somebody disturbing animals or the person who was accused? In the absence of corroboration, that is a difficult issue. Where disturbance leads to damage, I am comfortable with its being an offence, but the disturbance in itself should not be an offence under the bill.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Our main item of business today concerns the Nature Conservation (Scotland) Bill. This is our second day of consideration of the bill at stage 2. I invite me...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I draw members' attention to my entry in the register of members' interests, where they will see that I am a landowner and a member of the Scottish Landowner...
The Convener:
Lab
I take it that nobody else has any interests to declare.I welcome Allan Wilson, Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development, and his officials. Mem...
After section 3
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 115, in the name of Alex Johnstone, is in a group on its own.
Alex Johnstone:
Con
I lodged amendment 115, and one or two other amendments, because I want to explore some fundamental principles that we tend to overlook when legislation is p...
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Amendment 115 confuses the role of the Advisory Committee on Sites of Special Scientific Interest and the role of the Scottish Land Court. It also overlooks ...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
I accept much of what the minister has said, but I still believe that there is a basic principle at stake and it is one that I am prepared to put to the test...
The Convener:
Lab
The question is, that amendment 115 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener:
Lab
There will be a division.
ForJohnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)AgainstBoyack, Sarah (Edinburgh Central) (Lab)Gibson, Rob (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)Gillon, Karen (Clydesdal...
The Convener:
Lab
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 7, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 115 disagreed to.
Section 4—Site management statements
Amendment 23 moved—Allan Wilson—and agreed to.
Section 4, as amended, agreed to.
Section 5—Enlargement of sites of special scientific interest
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 24, in the name of Allan Wilson, is grouped with amendments 26 and 118.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Amendments 24 and 26 propose minor drafting changes. The purpose of section 5 is to provide a simple mechanism whereby new land that is of SSSI quality—or la...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
I am concerned that land that is contiguous to a site of special scientific interest may be treated in the same way as the SSSI, without necessarily having g...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I understand that the expert working group on SSSI reform, which included representatives of the Scottish Landowners Federation, the Royal Institution of Cha...
The Convener:
Lab
My view is that, if we removed section 5, as amendment 118 suggests, we would scupper a bit of the bill, but that is a matter for us to debate.
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Alex Johnstone is worried about proofing designations, so to speak, but I think that his fears are misplaced, because new designations have to go through the...
Amendment 24 agreed to.
Amendment 25 moved—Allan Wilson—and agreed to.
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 117, in the name of Eleanor Scott, was debated with amendment 111.
Eleanor Scott (Highlands and Islands) (Green):
Green
My understanding—and I am now confused between this week's meeting and last week's—was that amendment 117 was consequential on amendment 111 being accepted. ...
Amendment 117 not moved.
Amendment 26 moved—Allan Wilson—and agreed to.