Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2008
27 Mar 2008 · S3 · Plenary
Item of business
Fatal Accident Inquiries
I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate. It is an important one on an issue that affects families and communities the length and breadth of Scotland. There are many occasions when someone dies in unexplained circumstances and the victim's family wants to understand why their loved one died, learn the lessons from that death and ensure that effective steps are taken to reduce the risk of another person dying in similar circumstances.
In my time as an MSP, I have been involved with families who have lost loved ones in various tragic circumstances. In most of those cases, the families wanted prosecutions to be brought or, at least, fatal accident inquiries to be held. The first case is the Transco case, which is particularly well known, especially to the Solicitor General, who prosecuted it successfully, for which I am thankful. The need for a fatal accident inquiry in that case was overtaken by the trial. Over six months, the facts and circumstances of that tragedy were able to be put into the public domain and lessons were, I hope, learned, although that remains to be seen.
The second case is that of William Campbell, a young man who died in a road accident. In that case, the accused pled guilty and the opportunity for the trial to explore the facts was not as full as it could have been. There has been no fatal accident inquiry and the parents still wonder whether the lessons of their son's death have been learned.
I welcome the review, because there are things that need to be improved and changes that need to be made. In any circumstance, we must learn the lessons of the past and make improvements for the future. A number of key principles should underpin the review. We must place the victim and their family at the heart of the process. Whatever system is developed should not be constrained in its efficacy by a lack of finance. The decision to hold a fatal accident inquiry—or whatever we call it—should not be limited because of insufficient funds, insufficient sheriffs or whatever other constraint could be placed on it. The vested interests of any section of the legal establishment should not be allowed to influence the new system's structure unduly. The timescales that are involved must be reduced so that families' grief and hurt are not unnecessarily extended because of failings in our system to bring about justice for them.
The recommendations that an inquiry makes should not be optional but must be implemented. What is the point of an inquiry making recommendations if their implementation is at the whim of some agency or another? There must also be much greater clarity about the criteria that are used to determine whether an FAI will be held and guarantees that we will not create a two or three-tier system if we have different levels of inquiry.
In my experience, one of the most unsatisfactory areas of the system relates to road deaths. We all understand our own failures, weaknesses and vulnerability on the roads and have all had too close an experience—we all know that there but for the grace of God go we and that it could have been us who caused an accident—so perhaps we err on the side of caution when it comes to prosecutions for, and FAIs into, road deaths. It seems that at the moment one can pick up the paper or switch on the news on an almost weekly basis and there is another life lost. Our cars are getting faster and drivers are getting more daring, and more innocent people are caught up and killed in the turmoil. In far too many cases, prosecution is limited and an FAI is not held, so no lessons can be learned.
I am increasingly convinced that when someone dies on the roads, it should be presumed that a fatal accident inquiry will take place unless it can be clearly and unequivocally demonstrated that that would not be in the public interest. Regarding the case that Michael McMahon outlined, I understand that if the woman who caused the accident had died, a fatal accident inquiry would have been mandatory because she was driving in the course of her work. However, because the victim was an innocent person who was driving home on a journey that she made every night, it was deemed that no fatal accident inquiry should be held.
Too many people are driving too quickly on our roads—too many people are driving on our roads. Too many of our roads have too many holes and too many people are dying. It is only by investigating all these cases in public that we can learn the lessons and take the steps that are needed to ensure that changes are made to roads investment, drivers' attitudes, young people's safety, or—through negotiation with our Westminster colleagues—the law on road safety. As a parent of two boys who travel daily on a school bus, I want to ensure that those children are as safe as possible and that the lessons that are learned from the case that Michael Matheson outlined are taken forward.
I am more than happy to support Margaret Smith's amendment—it is right that change happens. The letter from Des Browne that members all received this morning sets out the position of the UK Government, which has put forward a constructive solution: changing Scots law to allow mandatory inquiries to be held for service personnel who are killed abroad. Perhaps I am just a bit cynical, but I am sure that this time last year, the tricky issue of the Scotland Act 1998 would have been no barrier to the then Scottish National Party justice spokesperson—now our Cabinet Secretary for Justice—calling for legislation to be introduced as a matter of urgency. I am aware, perhaps more than most members, of the constitutional wrangling that surrounds the pursuit of justice where reserved and devolved issues are involved, whether they relate to corporate culpable homicide or, in this case, service personnel who are killed while they are on operational duties overseas.
My position on the issue is as it was on corporate culpable homicide: it is a simple matter of justice that is devolved to this Parliament on which we have a duty to act, and I hope that it can be resolved quickly. I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could indicate whether he intends to amend Scots law in the manner that is outlined in Des Browne's letter and, if not, his reasons for not taking that forward and the other avenues that he will be able to pursue.
Lord Cullen is, without doubt, a prolific legal person. I am sure that his review will get to the heart of many of these issues, but while he is doing that, people will die in circumstances that are unexplained and tragic. Whatever comes of his review, it must ensure that the families who lose loved ones are satisfied that the process is fair and just. Although such a process cannot bring their loved ones back, they understand that lessons will be learned from their tragedy and that other people might be saved from dying in similar circumstances as a result. I commend the Government for bringing forward the review and we, as Labour members, look forward to working with it to ensure that the system that comes into place is as effective as possible.
In my time as an MSP, I have been involved with families who have lost loved ones in various tragic circumstances. In most of those cases, the families wanted prosecutions to be brought or, at least, fatal accident inquiries to be held. The first case is the Transco case, which is particularly well known, especially to the Solicitor General, who prosecuted it successfully, for which I am thankful. The need for a fatal accident inquiry in that case was overtaken by the trial. Over six months, the facts and circumstances of that tragedy were able to be put into the public domain and lessons were, I hope, learned, although that remains to be seen.
The second case is that of William Campbell, a young man who died in a road accident. In that case, the accused pled guilty and the opportunity for the trial to explore the facts was not as full as it could have been. There has been no fatal accident inquiry and the parents still wonder whether the lessons of their son's death have been learned.
I welcome the review, because there are things that need to be improved and changes that need to be made. In any circumstance, we must learn the lessons of the past and make improvements for the future. A number of key principles should underpin the review. We must place the victim and their family at the heart of the process. Whatever system is developed should not be constrained in its efficacy by a lack of finance. The decision to hold a fatal accident inquiry—or whatever we call it—should not be limited because of insufficient funds, insufficient sheriffs or whatever other constraint could be placed on it. The vested interests of any section of the legal establishment should not be allowed to influence the new system's structure unduly. The timescales that are involved must be reduced so that families' grief and hurt are not unnecessarily extended because of failings in our system to bring about justice for them.
The recommendations that an inquiry makes should not be optional but must be implemented. What is the point of an inquiry making recommendations if their implementation is at the whim of some agency or another? There must also be much greater clarity about the criteria that are used to determine whether an FAI will be held and guarantees that we will not create a two or three-tier system if we have different levels of inquiry.
In my experience, one of the most unsatisfactory areas of the system relates to road deaths. We all understand our own failures, weaknesses and vulnerability on the roads and have all had too close an experience—we all know that there but for the grace of God go we and that it could have been us who caused an accident—so perhaps we err on the side of caution when it comes to prosecutions for, and FAIs into, road deaths. It seems that at the moment one can pick up the paper or switch on the news on an almost weekly basis and there is another life lost. Our cars are getting faster and drivers are getting more daring, and more innocent people are caught up and killed in the turmoil. In far too many cases, prosecution is limited and an FAI is not held, so no lessons can be learned.
I am increasingly convinced that when someone dies on the roads, it should be presumed that a fatal accident inquiry will take place unless it can be clearly and unequivocally demonstrated that that would not be in the public interest. Regarding the case that Michael McMahon outlined, I understand that if the woman who caused the accident had died, a fatal accident inquiry would have been mandatory because she was driving in the course of her work. However, because the victim was an innocent person who was driving home on a journey that she made every night, it was deemed that no fatal accident inquiry should be held.
Too many people are driving too quickly on our roads—too many people are driving on our roads. Too many of our roads have too many holes and too many people are dying. It is only by investigating all these cases in public that we can learn the lessons and take the steps that are needed to ensure that changes are made to roads investment, drivers' attitudes, young people's safety, or—through negotiation with our Westminster colleagues—the law on road safety. As a parent of two boys who travel daily on a school bus, I want to ensure that those children are as safe as possible and that the lessons that are learned from the case that Michael Matheson outlined are taken forward.
I am more than happy to support Margaret Smith's amendment—it is right that change happens. The letter from Des Browne that members all received this morning sets out the position of the UK Government, which has put forward a constructive solution: changing Scots law to allow mandatory inquiries to be held for service personnel who are killed abroad. Perhaps I am just a bit cynical, but I am sure that this time last year, the tricky issue of the Scotland Act 1998 would have been no barrier to the then Scottish National Party justice spokesperson—now our Cabinet Secretary for Justice—calling for legislation to be introduced as a matter of urgency. I am aware, perhaps more than most members, of the constitutional wrangling that surrounds the pursuit of justice where reserved and devolved issues are involved, whether they relate to corporate culpable homicide or, in this case, service personnel who are killed while they are on operational duties overseas.
My position on the issue is as it was on corporate culpable homicide: it is a simple matter of justice that is devolved to this Parliament on which we have a duty to act, and I hope that it can be resolved quickly. I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could indicate whether he intends to amend Scots law in the manner that is outlined in Des Browne's letter and, if not, his reasons for not taking that forward and the other avenues that he will be able to pursue.
Lord Cullen is, without doubt, a prolific legal person. I am sure that his review will get to the heart of many of these issues, but while he is doing that, people will die in circumstances that are unexplained and tragic. Whatever comes of his review, it must ensure that the families who lose loved ones are satisfied that the process is fair and just. Although such a process cannot bring their loved ones back, they understand that lessons will be learned from their tragedy and that other people might be saved from dying in similar circumstances as a result. I commend the Government for bringing forward the review and we, as Labour members, look forward to working with it to ensure that the system that comes into place is as effective as possible.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on S3M-1638, in the name of Frank Mulholland, on fatal accident inquiries. Members might wish to note that a revised se...
The Solicitor General for Scotland (Frank Mulholland):
I welcome the opportunity to open today's debate. On 7 March, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice announced that he and the Lord Advocate had agreed that there...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
The Solicitor General for Scotland is opening the debate on the Government's behalf, so will he answer my question on the Government's behalf? What is the Go...
The Solicitor General for Scotland:
I thank the member for his question, which raises an important point. The matter is reserved, because defence is reserved, so it needs to be considered and w...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the debate and Lord Cullen's forthcoming review, which will be the first proper review of the legislation on fatal accident inquiries in more than ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
I seek clarification. Margaret Smith has mentioned Scottish soldiers a couple of times, and her amendment mentions both"personnel, normally domiciled in Scot...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Yes. I included the phrase "normally domiciled in Scotland" to clarify that.Families who have lost loved ones through service for our country deserve our sup...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I begin by welcoming the review of the legislation governing fatal accident inquiries in Scotland. I particularly welcome the choice of Lord Cullen of Whitek...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
This is a useful debate. As members of the Justice Committee will be aware, I was minded to recommend that, as a result of a petition from Norman Dunning on ...
Keith Brown (Ochil) (SNP):
SNP
The motion welcomes an independent review by a figure of the highest reputation and legal standing to resolve a set of problems that I hope we all agree exis...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab):
Lab
When I had the privilege of being convener of the Public Petitions Committee, two of the most harrowing petitions that I encountered, from Enable and from th...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome this extremely interesting debate. The Solicitor General and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice are aware that, along with Margaret Smith and, as it...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this afternoon's debate. Like Pauline McNeill and Michael McMahon, I will support the amendment in t...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the review and the fact that Lord Cullen has been appointed to undertake it. As many have said, he is an individual with great experience in this f...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Will Michael Matheson comment on whether we should consider adopting in legislation the system in America, where it is illegal to overtake a school bus at an...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan):
SNP
That is a bit far away from the subject of fatal accident inquires.
Michael Matheson:
SNP
It is, but it is an issue that a fatal accident inquiry could consider, and it may be one of its recommendations. That brings me neatly to the issue of an in...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate. It is an important one on an issue that affects families and communities the length and breadth of Sc...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will address my remarks—as usual, very late in the debate—to one particular issue that is expected to be considered during the review: the status of recomm...
Mike Pringle (Edinburgh South) (LD):
LD
Scotland is widely perceived to be a reasonably safe place to live and it is relied on as such. Whatever activity someone takes part in, be it white-water ra...
John Lamont (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con):
Con
The debate and the review of the law on fatal accident inquiries are welcome. As others have said, Lord Cullen's wealth of experience makes him ideally equip...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Does the member share my concern about the deterioration of evidence when there are delays?
John Lamont:
Con
Indeed. If things are not dealt with in a timely manner, there is a danger that evidence becomes less good and less reliable. I agree with Christine Grahame'...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):
Lab
Despite popular belief, we occasionally agree with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, and the time is right for us to support him in his review of the legisl...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill):
SNP
I welcome the spirit in which the debate has taken place and the concordat that the parties reached beforehand on the amendment, which we are happy to suppor...
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
I know that we will have a debate on this matter, but will the cabinet secretary first of all accept and act on the words of the Secretary of State for Defen...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
The short answer is that we cannot act until we have the flexibility provided by changes to the Scotland Act 1998. We are a creature of that statute and are ...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
If the Parliament votes for the amendment in the name of Margaret Smith, which suggests that the holding of FAIs into the deaths of Scottish service personne...
Kenny MacAskill:
SNP
We have indicated our general support for the idea—that is why we support Margaret Smith's amendment. I would be delighted if we could deal with the issue ou...
Margaret Smith:
LD
Is it the cabinet secretary's understanding that the UK Government would be prepared to support the making of a section 30 order on the issue, given that bot...