Chamber
Plenary, 24 May 2000
24 May 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
National Parks (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We have had extensive discussion of section 28; we now move on to talk about section 29—marine national parks.
Scottish Natural Heritage admitted that marine national parks were not initially examined. Indeed, in her evidence to the Transport and the Environment Committee last year, the Minister for Transport and the Environment accepted that the bill would be targeted at a terrestrial concept. Section 29 is, therefore, something of an afterthought that has been tacked on in response to public consultation on the draft bill and, I suggest, without proper thought to the issues around marine parks.
Not surprisingly, a number of reservations about section 29 were expressed to the Rural Affairs Committee. In particular, the Scottish Fishermen's Federation felt that insufficient information had been provided to allow an informed debate on marine national parks at this stage. The federation felt that it was difficult adequately to address fundamental issues such as the purpose of marine national parks, the areas in which it is appropriate to establish marine national parks and whether there is a need for them in Scotland. Evidence overseas suggests that marine parks are usually established to protect areas of outstanding marine species diversity, a good example being the barrier reef. Further clarification is required to allay the concerns of fishermen about a further tier of regulation on top of the complexities of existing marine legislation.
Many organisations envisage marine national parks with a strong terrestrial connection. Some concern was expressed that the phrase "wholly or mainly" might preclude the flexibility of applying section 29 to areas that are mainly land, but have a component of sea. While the SNP believes that the concept of marine national parks is important and that some coastal communities might wish eventually to explore it, at this stage public debate has focused on terrestrial parks and it is vital that there is equitable application of any benefits of national park designation.
We strongly recommend further consultation with the likely users and competent authorities and much more detailed consideration of the network of existing legislation and the complexities of designating and managing a marine national park so that appropriate amendments that more adequately include marine interests can be lodged at stage 2.
The Rural Affairs Committee also considered local representation in some detail. That was appropriate since in the responses to the first consultation that was the area that was most commented on. Sixty-four per cent of respondents called either for direct elections or for more local representation. Serious problems have been encountered in national parks elsewhere as a consequence of failure to involve local people. A sense of local ownership must be created and nurtured and local communities in designated national park areas must be given the opportunity to play a major role in planning and managing their park at strategic and local levels.
The SNP advocates a firmer commitment to including community representatives on park authorities rather than leaving that to chance through local authority nomination or appointment by ministers. In evidence to committees there was overwhelming agreement that local interests must be adequately represented on national park authorities. The means by which that is to be achieved is open to further discussion and amendment, but community involvement must be guaranteed and we urge the Minister for Transport and the Environment to give that serious consideration.
Scottish Natural Heritage admitted that marine national parks were not initially examined. Indeed, in her evidence to the Transport and the Environment Committee last year, the Minister for Transport and the Environment accepted that the bill would be targeted at a terrestrial concept. Section 29 is, therefore, something of an afterthought that has been tacked on in response to public consultation on the draft bill and, I suggest, without proper thought to the issues around marine parks.
Not surprisingly, a number of reservations about section 29 were expressed to the Rural Affairs Committee. In particular, the Scottish Fishermen's Federation felt that insufficient information had been provided to allow an informed debate on marine national parks at this stage. The federation felt that it was difficult adequately to address fundamental issues such as the purpose of marine national parks, the areas in which it is appropriate to establish marine national parks and whether there is a need for them in Scotland. Evidence overseas suggests that marine parks are usually established to protect areas of outstanding marine species diversity, a good example being the barrier reef. Further clarification is required to allay the concerns of fishermen about a further tier of regulation on top of the complexities of existing marine legislation.
Many organisations envisage marine national parks with a strong terrestrial connection. Some concern was expressed that the phrase "wholly or mainly" might preclude the flexibility of applying section 29 to areas that are mainly land, but have a component of sea. While the SNP believes that the concept of marine national parks is important and that some coastal communities might wish eventually to explore it, at this stage public debate has focused on terrestrial parks and it is vital that there is equitable application of any benefits of national park designation.
We strongly recommend further consultation with the likely users and competent authorities and much more detailed consideration of the network of existing legislation and the complexities of designating and managing a marine national park so that appropriate amendments that more adequately include marine interests can be lodged at stage 2.
The Rural Affairs Committee also considered local representation in some detail. That was appropriate since in the responses to the first consultation that was the area that was most commented on. Sixty-four per cent of respondents called either for direct elections or for more local representation. Serious problems have been encountered in national parks elsewhere as a consequence of failure to involve local people. A sense of local ownership must be created and nurtured and local communities in designated national park areas must be given the opportunity to play a major role in planning and managing their park at strategic and local levels.
The SNP advocates a firmer commitment to including community representatives on park authorities rather than leaving that to chance through local authority nomination or appointment by ministers. In evidence to committees there was overwhelming agreement that local interests must be adequately represented on national park authorities. The means by which that is to be achieved is open to further discussion and amendment, but community involvement must be guaranteed and we urge the Minister for Transport and the Environment to give that serious consideration.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The next item of business is motion S1M-770, in the name of Sarah Boyack, on the general principles of the National Parks (Scotland) Bill. Many more members ...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen):
LD
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am delighted to have the opportunity to open today's debate on the general principles of the National Parks (Scotland) Bill. ...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
Highland Council has some concerns about what is being proposed. The minister mentioned people and sustainability. Does he share my belief that it is importa...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I share the general concern and I assure Mr Stone that we will return to that issue at stage 2. I know that getting that balance right is key to the success ...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Does the minister accept that, for national parks to succeed, it is essential that they enjoy the backing and support of the communities that live and work i...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
Although I agree with Fergus Ewing's first point about the support and involvement of people in the area, I do not think that a referendum is the correct way...
Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will the minister give way?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I want to make some progress.The Rural Affairs Committee also raised the question of marine national parks. Scotland has a rich and varied coast, and during ...
Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I will explain the point a little more and then give way to the member.The idea of wholly marine parks emerged relatively late on. As we did not want to excl...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The minister has actually answered the question that I was going to put.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
In that case, you do not need to put it. Laughter.
Nicol Stephen:
LD
Thank you.The membership of national park authorities will be crucial to their success. The Rural Affairs Committee makes it clear that local representation ...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Will the minister give way?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
Although I am just about to close, I will give way.
Mr Rumbles:
LD
I notice that the minister is moving away from the point about representation on park boards. As he recognised, 64 per cent of the respondents were dissatisf...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
Earlier, I drew attention to the Rural Affairs Committee, making clear its view that local representation on park authorities should be guaranteed. In my nex...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I am grateful to the minister for taking my hint about using less than the allotted time.
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Today we are debating the bill that will enable national parks for Scotland. The Scottish National party believes that the aims of the bill should apply to t...
Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):
SNP
There is something about the Conservative party, you mean—it is in a state of collapse. Laughter.
Linda Fabiani:
SNP
I will move on.The number of advisory groups and committees to be established will be determined by the park authorities. The number of advisory groups and c...
Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I apologise, Presiding Officer, for any damage that may have been done to the equipment when I knocked my microphone off my lectern. As convener of the Rural...
Mr Rumbles:
LD
Always cautious.
Alex Johnstone:
Con
I am always cautious. The bill represents an opportunity to restore Scotland's natural heritage to a prominent place in Scottish society. Section 1(3) sets o...
Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab):
Lab
In the 1940s, Tom Johnston, the Glasgow socialist who was Secretary of State for Scotland in our previous coalition Government, commissioned a report from Lo...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Does the member agree that the definition of the Sandford principle set out in section 8 of the bill is opaque and virtually meaningless? Given that, if ther...
Lewis Macdonald:
Lab
That is a important question, which the Rural Affairs Committee—of which I am a member—considered very carefully. We came to the view that both section 1 and...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
I agree with what the Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning said in his opening remarks. At long last—50 years late—Scotland is to get nationa...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
It gives me great pleasure to speak—not as a minister, I hasten to add, but as someone with a special constituency interest—in support of the National Parks ...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
We have had extensive discussion of section 28; we now move on to talk about section 29—marine national parks.Scottish Natural Heritage admitted that marine ...