Chamber
Plenary, 16 Feb 2000
16 Feb 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Draft Census (Scotland) Order 2000
The motion of the Equal Opportunities Committee, which has been withdrawn, put together a package of measures to ensure the inclusion in the census of a question on religion and an enhanced question on ethnic groupings and language spoken at home, with a specific question on the Scots language. That was the unanimous position of the Equal Opportunities Committee; it was confirmed as recently as yesterday. Today, we have received a verbal assurance from the minister that he will include a question on religion and is willing to consult on the expansion of the questions on ethnicity.
That is not enough, as those concessions are not included in the motion on which we will vote today and they do not meet all the requirements of the original Equal Opportunities Committee motion. The minister is not willing to accept a question on language spoken at home and there is no mention of concessions in respect of the Scots language.
Members might ask why it is so important to have such a question in the census. Scots is recognised by the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages as one of Europe's minority languages. It is time that it was acknowledged in Scotland.
Scots has a written history as far back as the 14th century and a literature that no other European minority language can rival. It was the official language of Scottish government until the adoption of English translations of the Bible at the reformation, and continued as the spoken language of all classes in the lowlands well into the 18th century.
The previous Scottish Parliament spoke Scots and had its official report written in Scots for about 100 years. It would be ironic if prejudice and ignorance meant that this new Scottish Parliament ignored the importance of the language. The important point is that, although the languages are closely related, Scots is not derived from English and it is not just a continuum of English—it is a language, not a dialect.
It should be a huge embarrassment to this Parliament that we have only a vague idea of the number of people who speak or understand Scots nowadays and in which areas the language is strongest. Languages cannot survive in the modern world if they are completely ignored by the education system and the media, as Scots largely is. It is not possible for local and national government to plan for educational and other provision without data on the language.
The only effective way of gathering the data nationally is through the census, as already happens for Gaelic. The information would help the planning of the promotion of Scots in schools, preparation of higher still material on Scots language and preparation of dictionaries and other reference works on Scots. It would assist in the development of all language-related industries, including broadcasting, media, publishing and academia. It would inform research into the language, its age and geographical profiles and its future prospects.
Census data could also assist in planning for cultural tourism in cases where information on local languages and culture could be a marketing
tool. The inclusion of a question on Scots in the census is necessary not only for the details that it will reveal, but for the status that it will give to the mither tongue of at least 1.5 million Scots, if the Government's 1996 estimates are accurate.
Many of us were brought up in a country where the major institutions did not recognise our language and culture as valid. Surely our new Scottish democracy must recognise the culture and speech of the mass of the people if it is to approach the ideal of inclusivity, which is cherished by all of us who worked for the creation of the Parliament.
I am encouraged by the publication of the report on the national cultural strategy for Scotland consultation. Responses came from a wide range of individuals, independent organisations and associations, as well as from major national institutions and non-governmental organisations, local authorities and trade unions. The report stated:
"There is a need to recognise the Scots language, to measure its use, to celebrate and not denigrate it, and to enable it to take its place alongside Gaelic and English."
To borrow a story from the author and broadcaster Billy Kay, in the age of despotism at the end of the 18th century, Robert Burns was advised by the anglicised elite at the head of Scottish society not to write in Scots, as it would be dead within a few generations. Thankfully for world literature, Burns kent better, and continued to express in Scots poems and songs that have inspired millions. Who could ever forget the moment on 1 July last year when Sheena Wellington stood at the back of this chamber and sang "Is there for honest poverty", which so movingly opened our Parliament and established a new democracy for Scotland?
Scots is still alive and thriving, but now needs help and support, such as that given to Ulster Scots as part of the Good Friday agreement. The proposal is that Ulster Scots will receive £1 million, 75 per cent of which will come from the UK Government, a somewhat larger sum than it has ever given to the parent language, Scots. Currently, only £112,000 per year is given to support Scots, which is almost certainly the worst- funded minority language in Europe.
There may be difficulties in formulating a question to get meaningful data, but it is not impossible. Some teething problems are inevitable whenever any new question is added to the census. There was some confusion when Gaelic was first included in 1881; the wording of the question was subsequently refined. Nobody would suggest, however, that there should not have been a question on Gaelic, which has proved invaluable in planning Gaelic policy.
By opposing the question on Scots, this Parliament would effectively be opposing meaningful development of the Scots language, and denying equality to one of Scotland's indigenous languages.
That is not enough, as those concessions are not included in the motion on which we will vote today and they do not meet all the requirements of the original Equal Opportunities Committee motion. The minister is not willing to accept a question on language spoken at home and there is no mention of concessions in respect of the Scots language.
Members might ask why it is so important to have such a question in the census. Scots is recognised by the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages as one of Europe's minority languages. It is time that it was acknowledged in Scotland.
Scots has a written history as far back as the 14th century and a literature that no other European minority language can rival. It was the official language of Scottish government until the adoption of English translations of the Bible at the reformation, and continued as the spoken language of all classes in the lowlands well into the 18th century.
The previous Scottish Parliament spoke Scots and had its official report written in Scots for about 100 years. It would be ironic if prejudice and ignorance meant that this new Scottish Parliament ignored the importance of the language. The important point is that, although the languages are closely related, Scots is not derived from English and it is not just a continuum of English—it is a language, not a dialect.
It should be a huge embarrassment to this Parliament that we have only a vague idea of the number of people who speak or understand Scots nowadays and in which areas the language is strongest. Languages cannot survive in the modern world if they are completely ignored by the education system and the media, as Scots largely is. It is not possible for local and national government to plan for educational and other provision without data on the language.
The only effective way of gathering the data nationally is through the census, as already happens for Gaelic. The information would help the planning of the promotion of Scots in schools, preparation of higher still material on Scots language and preparation of dictionaries and other reference works on Scots. It would assist in the development of all language-related industries, including broadcasting, media, publishing and academia. It would inform research into the language, its age and geographical profiles and its future prospects.
Census data could also assist in planning for cultural tourism in cases where information on local languages and culture could be a marketing
tool. The inclusion of a question on Scots in the census is necessary not only for the details that it will reveal, but for the status that it will give to the mither tongue of at least 1.5 million Scots, if the Government's 1996 estimates are accurate.
Many of us were brought up in a country where the major institutions did not recognise our language and culture as valid. Surely our new Scottish democracy must recognise the culture and speech of the mass of the people if it is to approach the ideal of inclusivity, which is cherished by all of us who worked for the creation of the Parliament.
I am encouraged by the publication of the report on the national cultural strategy for Scotland consultation. Responses came from a wide range of individuals, independent organisations and associations, as well as from major national institutions and non-governmental organisations, local authorities and trade unions. The report stated:
"There is a need to recognise the Scots language, to measure its use, to celebrate and not denigrate it, and to enable it to take its place alongside Gaelic and English."
To borrow a story from the author and broadcaster Billy Kay, in the age of despotism at the end of the 18th century, Robert Burns was advised by the anglicised elite at the head of Scottish society not to write in Scots, as it would be dead within a few generations. Thankfully for world literature, Burns kent better, and continued to express in Scots poems and songs that have inspired millions. Who could ever forget the moment on 1 July last year when Sheena Wellington stood at the back of this chamber and sang "Is there for honest poverty", which so movingly opened our Parliament and established a new democracy for Scotland?
Scots is still alive and thriving, but now needs help and support, such as that given to Ulster Scots as part of the Good Friday agreement. The proposal is that Ulster Scots will receive £1 million, 75 per cent of which will come from the UK Government, a somewhat larger sum than it has ever given to the parent language, Scots. Currently, only £112,000 per year is given to support Scots, which is almost certainly the worst- funded minority language in Europe.
There may be difficulties in formulating a question to get meaningful data, but it is not impossible. Some teething problems are inevitable whenever any new question is added to the census. There was some confusion when Gaelic was first included in 1881; the wording of the question was subsequently refined. Nobody would suggest, however, that there should not have been a question on Gaelic, which has proved invaluable in planning Gaelic policy.
By opposing the question on Scots, this Parliament would effectively be opposing meaningful development of the Scots language, and denying equality to one of Scotland's indigenous languages.
In the same item of business
The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe):
Lab
I move without notice, That motion S1M-552 be taken at this meeting of the Parliament.
Motion agreed to.
Mr McCabe:
Lab
I wish to move motion S1M-552 because the draft census order is somewhat unusual, in that it is subject to both affirmative and negative procedures. Suspensi...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We will now proceed to the debate on motion S1M-459.
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I understand that motion S1M-519 in the name of Kate MacLean has been withdrawn.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
You have pre-empted me—I was about to inform members that Kate MacLean's motion has been withdrawn. In the interests of the chamber, I am happy to accept a m...
Tricia Marwick:
SNP
I move without notice,That motion S1M-554 be taken at this meeting of the Parliament.
Motion agreed to.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I will call Irene McGugan to move her motion in place of that of Kate MacLean at the appropriate time. I now call Jim Wallace to move motion S1M-459.
The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace):
LD
The 2001 census will be a landmark event, as it will be the first census of the new millennium and the first to be conducted under the auspices of the Scotti...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
I am interested in the reference that has been made to escalating costs. For the benefit of everyone in the chamber, will the minister give us an indication ...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I have received estimates thatindicate that an extra page would cost an additional £600,000 to £1 million; the more pages were added, the more costs would in...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
I thank the minister for his concession, which will be broadly welcomed by all religious groups. In my constituency, the Christian, Muslim and Jewish communi...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I assure Mr Macintosh that there will be consultation. I am sure that the Jewish community will want to make its views known. The inclusion in the census of ...
Mr Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
Of course we welcome the concessions and believe that the minister is totally trustworthy. I wonder, however, when he decided to make the concessions and why...
Mr Wallace:
LD
That is rather obvious. The motion before Parliament today was lodged on 10 January, before the Equal Opportunities Committee had had an opportunity to consi...
Mr Salmond:
SNP
The minister, as he well knows, is perfectly capable of lodging an amendment, which would adjust the Executive's position. Usually undertakings given to Parl...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I am not sure whether Mr Salmond was listening. I made it clear that we cannot include anything in the order that relates to religion, because we do not have...
Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Given those statements, will the minister explain why he lent his support to the campaign to include a question on the Scots language in the census?
Mr Wallace:
LD
I am better informed now. I have the information from the research that has been conducted, which shows how unreliable an answer to a question on the Scots l...
Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The minister is winding up now.
Mr Wallace:
LD
In education, curriculum guidance advocates teaching a proper awareness and an appreciation of Scots by including Scots literature. It is clear that there is...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
As the minister explained, the procedure is complicated. I will call Irene McGugan to move her motion. As it is not identical to the one that has been withdr...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On behalf of the Scottish National party, I move motion S1M-554, lodged in my name, which seeks to include a question on the Scots language in the 2001 censu...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Please proceed.
Irene McGugan:
SNP
The motion of the Equal Opportunities Committee, which has been withdrawn, put together a package of measures to ensure the inclusion in the census of a ques...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I do not think that we can jump from one position to the other—because there is not a question in the census, that does not mean that the Parliament or the e...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
We need a question in the census for exactly those reasons—to be able to have a base line of information from which to move forward to further investment, re...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
I call Tommy Sheridan to speak to and move amendment S1M-459.1. You have five minutes, Mr Sheridan.