Chamber
Plenary, 25 Sep 2002
25 Sep 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Proposed Commissioner for Children and Young People Bill
I suggest that the first line of the proposed bill should read, "There shall be a Scottish commissioner for children and young people". For some folk, this development is only slightly less significant than the establishment of the Parliament.
The establishment of the post of children's commissioner will send a clear message that all children in Scotland matter—that their human rights are as important as those of adults, and that the views of children and young people will be heard and acted on. From our consultation and our everyday experience, we know that that is very important to them. Every day, decisions are taken that affect young people, but they feel that they have no input into those decisions. They have no advocate who will articulate views on their behalf.
The proposed bill has added significance because it will be a committee bill. I feel privileged to have been part of the process. Committee members are very encouraged by the positive response and support that the minister and the Executive have given to our proposal.
The commissioner's remit would cover children up to the age of 18. For children who have been looked after by a local authority that duty would extend to age 21, in line with the provisions of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. There were difficulties in determining the age range to be covered by the bill. Different views were expressed to the committee on that issue. We propose that the commissioner should focus on the 1.25 million children in Scotland up to the age of 18, with an extension beyond that to a fairly small group of particularly vulnerable young people. They are vulnerable because they do not have, or at some time have not had, a family environment. That focus is entirely appropriate and in keeping with the Executive's objective of supporting disadvantaged young people.
The commissioner will have four key functions. The primary one is to promote and safeguard the rights of children and young people. We realise that in doing that the commissioner will have to promote awareness and understanding of exactly what those rights are throughout the whole population. It is a sad fact that most children, young people and, indeed, adults in Scotland would be unable to articulate any of them.
Secondly, the commissioner will be expected to keep under review current law and practice that relates to children and young people. The commissioner will then go further and assess whether such practice and existing law is adequate and effective. We acknowledge that the Executive has an obligation in that regard too, but we see the roles as complementary.
The third function is to promote best practice in relation to the rights of children and young people—practice being interpreted broadly to include policy. Finally, the commissioner will have the power to commission research to investigate how the rights are being exercised. All the results of that research will be published.
Underpinning all those functions are the relevant provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The bill will refer to the convention in general terms, but the commissioner will have regard to the convention as a whole. The main principles that are expressed in articles 2, 3.1 and 12 will be covered particularly and we intend that those provisions will focus the work of the commissioner. That means specifically that the views of children and young people will be taken into account in all decisions that affect them; that the best interests of children should be the primary consideration in all decisions that affect them and that no child should suffer discrimination. We see those three principles as forming the basis of the commissioner's remit.
The principles of consultation, participation and accessibility will be key to the commissioner's work. As the Education, Culture and Sport Committee's report makes clear, the work of the commissioner will be informed by the views of children and young people. That will require that every opportunity be taken to receive their input and input from organisations that work with and for children and young people. For example, the commissioner will be under a duty to obtain views on matters that affect the rights of children and young people and to consult on the proposed programme of work and set out how that programme will be achieved.
The commissioner will be required to prepare an annual report, to be presented to Parliament, which should include that information. The report should also include a strategy for actively engaging young people in the work of the commissioner. That will be covered in every annual report by examining how successful the commissioner has been in the past year and how the requirement will be tackled in the coming year.
We accept that engaging with every child in Scotland on a one-to-one basis would be impossible, but the committee expects the commissioner to explore a variety of ways of involving children and young people in the work. There are examples of good practice in the voluntary sector and from other children's commissioners in Europe. We hope that our commissioner will not be afraid to innovate.
The annual report will also contain a review of all the issues that the commissioner identifies as being relevant to children and young people. It will contain a review of all his or her activities in the previous 12 months and an overview of work that is to be undertaken in the coming 12 months, while allowing for some flexibility and alteration.
A great deal of accountability will be built into the proposed bill, which the committee felt was very important. That will have the effect of holding the Executive to account for the ways in which policy affects children and young people. I was heartened to hear the minister's comments on the child impact statement.
I direct my next point at Brian Monteith in particular. The commissioner will be a powerful champion for children for a number of reasons. The commissioner will be a statutory creation and will have independence—independence is always a great and powerful word. The post will be funded by the Executive and accountable to the Parliament, but it will stand apart from both and be directed by neither. Crucially, the commissioner's work will have enormous credibility because not only will children and young people drive it, they will drive how it is prioritised.
I appreciate that not everyone in Scotland will view the promotion and safeguarding of children's rights as a legislative priority. However, I am confident that most members present today will have no difficulty supporting the committee's proposal in order to ensure that, in future, the rights and interests of all children and young people are treated as a priority by policy makers and service providers. I suggest that that will go a considerable way towards making Scotland the more child-friendly society to which I am sure we all aspire.
The establishment of the post of children's commissioner will send a clear message that all children in Scotland matter—that their human rights are as important as those of adults, and that the views of children and young people will be heard and acted on. From our consultation and our everyday experience, we know that that is very important to them. Every day, decisions are taken that affect young people, but they feel that they have no input into those decisions. They have no advocate who will articulate views on their behalf.
The proposed bill has added significance because it will be a committee bill. I feel privileged to have been part of the process. Committee members are very encouraged by the positive response and support that the minister and the Executive have given to our proposal.
The commissioner's remit would cover children up to the age of 18. For children who have been looked after by a local authority that duty would extend to age 21, in line with the provisions of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. There were difficulties in determining the age range to be covered by the bill. Different views were expressed to the committee on that issue. We propose that the commissioner should focus on the 1.25 million children in Scotland up to the age of 18, with an extension beyond that to a fairly small group of particularly vulnerable young people. They are vulnerable because they do not have, or at some time have not had, a family environment. That focus is entirely appropriate and in keeping with the Executive's objective of supporting disadvantaged young people.
The commissioner will have four key functions. The primary one is to promote and safeguard the rights of children and young people. We realise that in doing that the commissioner will have to promote awareness and understanding of exactly what those rights are throughout the whole population. It is a sad fact that most children, young people and, indeed, adults in Scotland would be unable to articulate any of them.
Secondly, the commissioner will be expected to keep under review current law and practice that relates to children and young people. The commissioner will then go further and assess whether such practice and existing law is adequate and effective. We acknowledge that the Executive has an obligation in that regard too, but we see the roles as complementary.
The third function is to promote best practice in relation to the rights of children and young people—practice being interpreted broadly to include policy. Finally, the commissioner will have the power to commission research to investigate how the rights are being exercised. All the results of that research will be published.
Underpinning all those functions are the relevant provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The bill will refer to the convention in general terms, but the commissioner will have regard to the convention as a whole. The main principles that are expressed in articles 2, 3.1 and 12 will be covered particularly and we intend that those provisions will focus the work of the commissioner. That means specifically that the views of children and young people will be taken into account in all decisions that affect them; that the best interests of children should be the primary consideration in all decisions that affect them and that no child should suffer discrimination. We see those three principles as forming the basis of the commissioner's remit.
The principles of consultation, participation and accessibility will be key to the commissioner's work. As the Education, Culture and Sport Committee's report makes clear, the work of the commissioner will be informed by the views of children and young people. That will require that every opportunity be taken to receive their input and input from organisations that work with and for children and young people. For example, the commissioner will be under a duty to obtain views on matters that affect the rights of children and young people and to consult on the proposed programme of work and set out how that programme will be achieved.
The commissioner will be required to prepare an annual report, to be presented to Parliament, which should include that information. The report should also include a strategy for actively engaging young people in the work of the commissioner. That will be covered in every annual report by examining how successful the commissioner has been in the past year and how the requirement will be tackled in the coming year.
We accept that engaging with every child in Scotland on a one-to-one basis would be impossible, but the committee expects the commissioner to explore a variety of ways of involving children and young people in the work. There are examples of good practice in the voluntary sector and from other children's commissioners in Europe. We hope that our commissioner will not be afraid to innovate.
The annual report will also contain a review of all the issues that the commissioner identifies as being relevant to children and young people. It will contain a review of all his or her activities in the previous 12 months and an overview of work that is to be undertaken in the coming 12 months, while allowing for some flexibility and alteration.
A great deal of accountability will be built into the proposed bill, which the committee felt was very important. That will have the effect of holding the Executive to account for the ways in which policy affects children and young people. I was heartened to hear the minister's comments on the child impact statement.
I direct my next point at Brian Monteith in particular. The commissioner will be a powerful champion for children for a number of reasons. The commissioner will be a statutory creation and will have independence—independence is always a great and powerful word. The post will be funded by the Executive and accountable to the Parliament, but it will stand apart from both and be directed by neither. Crucially, the commissioner's work will have enormous credibility because not only will children and young people drive it, they will drive how it is prioritised.
I appreciate that not everyone in Scotland will view the promotion and safeguarding of children's rights as a legislative priority. However, I am confident that most members present today will have no difficulty supporting the committee's proposal in order to ensure that, in future, the rights and interests of all children and young people are treated as a priority by policy makers and service providers. I suggest that that will go a considerable way towards making Scotland the more child-friendly society to which I am sure we all aspire.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
Our main item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S1M-3322, in the name of Karen Gillon, on behalf of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Time for reflection is often relevant to the coming debate. Today's time for reflection was about celebrating differences and ensuring that everyone realises...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
On young people with complex special needs who are leaving the formal education service and going into adult services, does the member agree that we need to ...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Scott Barrie is absolutely right. At Stanmore House School, which is a national school to which children go from all over Scotland, staff clearly identified ...
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I agree with that point. Does Karen Gillon agree that the personality of the commissioner is critically important and that the last thing that we should do i...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Obviously, we cannot depend solely on a personality, but the person's ability to engage and work with young people will be the key factor. Members will notic...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
I was interested to hear that Karen Gillon was one of the sceptics early on in the Education, Culture and Sport Committee's inquiry. I wonder what changed he...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Could it also be that Karen Gillon found herself on the same side as me?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
We do not know that yet. We have not heard Brian Monteith's speech.I welcome the opportunity to debate the Education, Culture and Sport Committee's report an...
Mr Monteith:
Con
Can we be certain that a commissioner, and politicians for that matter, will not merely pay lip service to the idea of listening to children? I do not wish t...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I have no doubt that the Parliament and politicians do listen to the views of children and young people. I suggest that we need to do more on that and to ref...
Mr Monteith:
Con
I was a spoiled brat, but I was spanked.
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I will refrain from making any comment on that; rather, I will continue with my speech.It is important that a commissioner must seek to include children who ...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I suggest that the first line of the proposed bill should read, "There shall be a Scottish commissioner for children and young people". For some folk, this d...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I begin by thanking the clerks, the committee's adviser and, in particular, the people who gave evidence to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. We he...
Scott Barrie:
Lab
Say it again.
Mr Monteith:
Con
For good measure, I will say it again: there is such a thing as society. Of course, there are different views of the composition and type of society that we ...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
The member presents a negative picture of what a commissioner might be in Scotland. Does he accept that throughout Europe 15 independent bodies have been est...
Mr Monteith:
Con
I accept readily that there are different models, different forms of democracy, different electoral systems and different approaches to protecting the rights...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
Speaking both as a member of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I welcome the proposal for a bill to establis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
We move to the open debate. Although members can make speeches of up to six minutes, we may finish early.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
I start with a quotation:"Children really don't get listened to at all".That was a comment from a child who attended a youth event that the Parliament organi...
Mr Monteith:
Con
I am grateful to the member for delineating our different approaches. If the commissioner is to take an interest in social justice, how would the member reac...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
All members would react with interest to such a comment, because, by any measure and any standard of evidence, the comprehensive system is not failing Scotla...
Alex Neil:
SNP
I am fairly new to the debate and I seek a genuine point of clarification. Where is the borderline between an investigation into an individual and the invest...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
It would be allowed in the case of an organisation that runs a children's home. Let us take the example of a child who is being failed in some way by a parti...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I do not have the same detailed knowledge of the issue as most of the previous speakers, who are members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and ha...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I am aware that many of the members present—probably most of them—know a great deal more about the detail o...
Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
A recent chamber debate centred on a report of the working group on throughcare and aftercare of young people leaving the care system in Scotland, which was ...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Does the member accept that young people sometimes end up being looked after by their local authority or in care precisely because of their experiences in fa...